Harringay, Haringey - So Good they Spelt it Twice!
Haringey's permit payment site - data leakage woes?
My wife just applied for some visitor permits online. After a bit of a debacle as the council site was down for a bit (I suspect due to problems on Virgin Media tonight) she managed to get the payment pages to load.
Upon completion of payment, she filled out the box with her email address, to get a receipt sent. The receipt has arrived, but the confirmation web page said in fairly small red lettering at the top of the page that it'd been sent elsewhere - to some dodgy looking hotmail address.
The email that we have received has her name, address, and the last four digits of her card number, plus the type of card. Not a great deal of leakage but more than we'd send out to any random person out of choice! If the invoice has gone out to someone else, this seems like a clear breach of data protection regs to me.
Has anyone else noticed this behaviour from the site?
I will be calling HC and also emailing the random address to see if I can get a response. What a crappy payment site. Further evidence to show that it was coded by incompetents it seems! Who on earth signed that design off?!
Tags for Forum Posts: haringey, parking permits online, payment, permit, site
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Clive Carter on
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Who did sign that system off?
Don't hold your breath Joe!
We are told it is "systems" that may be at fault, not individuals, because Haringey does not have a blame culture. In practice, this means its difficult to find anyone who's in charge. (Except when something goes right! Some councillors are quick and eager to take credit for successes.)
I was disappointed to read that the councillor who appears possibly to be responsible for the visitor permits scheme, say that
"Hopefully [improving the online system] will be achieved in the next few months".
(emphasis added) Does this reflect any sense of urgency?
Sometimes its best to start again. An old Turkish proverb has it that, no matter how far you've travelled down a road, having taken the wrong turn, go back.
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Permalink Reply by Alan Stanton on
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“We are told it is 'systems' that may be at fault, not individuals . . ."
Come now, Clive, let’s not write in the passive. For anyone who hasn’t yet spotted it, this is a regular feature of Harringay Online. Catch-up here. Call - Response
Have you watched the Red Bead experiment ?
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Alan you are 100% correct about the need to maintain (restore?) confidence in the online purchase of visitor permits. In principle, online purchasing is a good idea.
But the current problems do need to be addressed actively, not passively! It would be nice if a politician came out with a statement along the following lines:
"The buck stops with me. Any problems with the purchase of parking permits are my responsibility and I promise I will sort it out completely within the next six weeks."
Part of the desirability of making an assertive statement, that implies accountability, is that it might encourage heads to be knocked together. It has the virtue of a testable or falsifiable proposition.
It's of little consolation to residents that we're told its a supplier who is at fault.
Systems are the product of individuals. I guess Joe's repeated question, who signed off that system?, will not be answered. I wonder how long the problems exposed in this thread have been going on. Three months? More?
(I am sorry I am not able to add any learned references to this contribution, apart from my quoting the wise Turkish Proverb – above).
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Clive, what is this peculiar aversion to clicking a link to read or even watch something that might disagree with you?
The Red Bead Game is not a "learned reference". It's not from forgotten nineteenth century literature. Nor even an ancient Freedonian proverb.
It's a game. It's also a joke - at management's expense. My link takes you to a YouTube video of a talk by W.E. Deming when he used the game as a teaching device to show how badly designed systems produce poor outcomes. But Deming wasn't saying that nobody is responsible. (Nor did he suggest assaulting donkeys or hitting people on the head.)
He wanted managers to understand the problems they create and co-operate to solve them. On which aim you and I agree.
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Amazon has set the example for online ordering efficiency for more than 10 years.
If the permits issue goes on much longer, a Freedom of Information request may reveal how much of our cash has been paid to Civica Civil Enforcement which appears to be the contracted supplier in this case.
I note from their website that they are a "Microsoft Partner".
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Permalink Reply by HoL Site Admin on
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This in our email just now:
We’ve been trying to post this under Pressdesk, but it’s not going through as far as we can see. Would you mind posting this as a reply to Mr Bailey’s post titled ‘Thanks Press desk at HC’ posted yesterday (Thursday) where he has listed seven questions to the council? Thanks for your help.
Joe,
We’ve been seeking a solution with our supplier since May but the sporadic nature of the fault, which is specific to parking payments only, has meant it has taken longer than we would have liked to get it sorted. The integrity of the system is checked daily and we have received the necessary assurances that no payment details have been shared. We don’t believe it is necessary to close the system, albeit we understand it has been disconcerting for a small number of people affected. Our focus at the moment is getting the system working 100 per cent but if there are any additional costs attached to this we will be looking to recoup those as far as were are able. We are looking into the availability of logs. We are sorry for the concern this has caused and are working hard to find a solution.
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Permalink Reply by Hugh on
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Pressdesk at Haringey Council, thanks for coming on to the site to give an answer - appreciated.
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Permalink Reply by Mook on
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I had the same! I complained online and got a reply from a Colm Campbell with the msg below - when I went back in to buy the next batch as you can't buy all at once it seemed to be fine. Not impressed though.
"We have been made aware by our software suppliers regarding a bug that shows the wrong email address. We have been assured by them that no email is sent to the email address and that your details are held securely. I apologise for any inconvenience. Please let me know if I can provide any further information."
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Permalink Reply by Justin Guest on
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How long ago was it that you had this issue, was it recent?
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Permalink Reply by Paul Grealish on
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> wrong email address
Issue still exists as of 14 Feb 2012. I've informed Colm Campbell,
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COST of Civica:
I received an acknowledgement from the council, that reply will be made by 20 February to the following Freedom of Information Request:
How much money has been paid to Civica, including any monies paid
in relation to the Civica Authority Traffic system. I understand
this lies behind the system for the online purchase of visitor
parking permits.Following the helpful (general) suggestion from Cllr. Alan Stanton, I made this request via the What do They Know? website so that the question and answer are in the public domain.
...
In a parking ticket news item, Kensington and Chelsea have been found, in part, to have operated a "predatory and dishonest" quota system, whereby parking wardens were expected to issue at least 10 Penalty Charge Notices, per shift.
The parking company involved (NSL Group) was honoured at the 2010 British Parking Awards. I didn't know that Parking Companies were "honoured" in such a way.
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Some awards can be a nice little earner. What sometimes happens is that the organisation running or hosting the award shortlists individuals or organisations. They may pay to come or even pay for a whole table for a nice meal. Possibly with a black tie dinner. (Whatever that is. I've never eaten one.)
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