Harringay, Haringey - So Good they Spelt it Twice!
Furniture store being advertised for Queen's Head despite planning conditions
I've just picked up a tweet from John McMullan with the following text and picture:
Ha ha! Queen's Head Harringay kept as a pub... and I laughed and laughed and laughed.
My understanding is that planning permission was granted with provisos that included:
the applicant retain the use of the ground floor of the building as a public house. A feasibility study would have to be conducted using a team approved by the council if the applicant wanted to, in the future, change the use of the ground floor
At the very least, it appears that the developers are acting in bad faith.
I've been on the phone to planning and was told that the decision has yet to be published with these provisos.
Perhaps our councillors might intercede on this if possible.
Tags supplement: More conversations on this topic in the Friends of the Queen's Head Group
Tags for Forum Posts: queen's head
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Tony Moseley on
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"PLC Giants" often have very rigid models and aren't necessarily the best people to breathe life into local pubs, look at the ones that actually are successful, here and elsewhere in the city - a lot of them are part of small chains or independents.
None of the original bars remained after the last refurbishment so imagine the interior is not listed, but don't know this.
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William: So, someone who just went into a pub, is going to want to buy say crips or a soft drink from the neighbouring covience stores? Somone just had a pub lunch, hes gona stroll into a local take away for more?
come to think about it, seems being the only large funitiure store in the immidiate vicinity, i would say that there would be no over lap and that retailers need not worry about a drop in trade.
Hugh: I remember hearing that even the local police had hesitation on this being a pub and had even considered withdrawing the drinks licence. So i think that some place just can not shake off its past image. Hugh i think your wrong there, as you can not compare "the deepest Devon" to a greater london location. Say in your leafy deep devon there is one pub, that is a community center where it is needed, not in greater london. Theres ample other options. and the QH is surrounded by no fewer that 10 or more around.
Liz: why wount it attract new or bring people to the vicinity? sorry didnt get how its so catagorically not possilbe for trade to spill outwards. I suppose high streets are all dead then if the idea that passing trade do not visit other stores.
The Salsburys Owners would no doubt have seen it for rent. If it was such a great oppotunity why didnt they take it and open it up?
There is a large diffence between the Sailsbury and this pub. i do not agree that the Sailsbury should be the fall back argument. The pubs are completley different. The Salis is much larger and thus allows greater financial use of the upper parts, which without doubt are utilised either and rentals for residential or possible venues. Compared the the QH where the upper parts are substantially less.
The Sails is right in the middle of the high street, while the QH is somewhat in no mans land. The Salisbury is surrounded by pay and display parking. the Closest parking for the QH is located at the top of frobishers road where it connects to Whightmans road. For these gastro pubs charging higher prices than local you would expect parking to be available.
Why would i care about the planning methods, i thought this site was about community not planning procedures. i leave that to the professionals.
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Permalink Reply by Liz on
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There are no other stores there. There's convenience stores, struggling restaurants that often don't last long and The Athena Palace. It is a long walk to GL High Street proper and a bit of a hike to the 'proper shops' of Wood Green. Just don't see there's a lot of chance of people coming out of the shop after purchasing their mattresses and glassware and strolling to the other High Streets. I could be wrong but I can't see them appealing to a wide cross section of passing trade there.
On your other point, part of community action (and a big part) is understanding how planning works and how it is abused. The professionals are not always working in the community's best interests.
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Seems you have only replied to 10% of my points. If there are struggling restuarants is it clever to want to add another property that sells food? if we are all wearing the "community" hat then i would say retail mix up is what is needed... not repetition.... I tell you what liz, im not an expert at peoples movements but lets hope that shoppers do go to locals to get that drink or snack, as the alternative which you pointed out is rather negative.
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Not all the points were addressed to me. I'll leave others to answer the points you addressed to them.
People shopping for furniture are likely to arrive and leave in cars. I suppose there's a chance they might want a can of coke or 20 Marlboros before they go. I take it you are aware of that locale and what is situated there? What of my point that the location is actually a long way on foot from the 'proper shops' of GL and WG?
However, I'm not that bothered about the furniture shops business plan, presumably they think they can make a go of it. What bothers me is the loss of a public space like a pub, after we were assured that the pub aspect had been 'saved'. I do not like to see the local community made a fool of.
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Permalink Reply by Ruth on
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Exactly. Being led to think that part of the premises would be kept as a pub and ending up being something completely different. It's like we were fobbed off really. The recent history of that pub might not have been that salubrious but it has a very long history. I guess history doesnt pay the bills... mattress shops might.
I worry that mattress shops are set up to feed the ever growing number of HMOs. Surely there is a link? Certainly in terms of people getting away with running rings about planning permission and uses of places. And be assured that once new mattresses are being bought, old ones will be dumped on our street corners.
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Permalink Reply by Karen Alexander on
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I spoke to Paul Smith in Planning this afternoon and was told much the same as Hugh - I expressed my extreme disappointment to him. Residents can be reassured that we are on the case.
Karen Alexander
Liberal Democrat Member for Harringay Ward
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Permalink Reply by SarahC on
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There's already a bed shop just behind Turnpike Lane station. I bought a mattress from them once. They were very pleasant, but I didn't get the impression they were very busy.
I find it hard to imagine any kind of furniture shop making a great success of that location. Where are they going to load vans etc? Or is it just a showroom?
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Permalink Reply by John McMullan on
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They've knocked down the front entrance a bit more, presumably to make a car park entrance. I imagine they can knock down the bit of the wall on Willoughby Rd between the pub and the cinema to give access to the rear for loading in the furniture.
I didn't want another pub, but I note with envy the plethora of fantastic Turkish restaurants down the other end of the ladder. Antepliler North?
I wonder what the car dealership next door think of this?
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Permalink Reply by linka on
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I doubt any HMO landlords will be buying their tenants Pasabahce stuff - it's pretty nice.
I think this is for the driveby suburban BMW/Merc traffic from further north - maybe a Saturday afternoon destination before dinner further down Green Lanes. Or maybe they're part of the wedding food-chain, along with the photographers, the hairdressers, the bakeries and the dress boutiques (wedding list).
I'm guessing this is how a large section of Green Lanes functions at the moment, and this property is being plugged into it. It's therefore definitely a destination for cars, not foot traffic. Not very sustainable from the local community's point of view, but they've probably got their market worked out.
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Permalink Reply by Duguneek on
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Cllrs is there any way of enforcing or strongly encouraging this shop and others that deliver mattresses to collect the old ones for responsible disposal? You should be controlling the problem at source please.
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