Harringay, Haringey - So Good they Spelt it Twice!
Parking Charge Increases - Green Lanes up to £3 per hour
Haringey Council's cabinet rubber stamped plans to raise pay and display parking charges by 114 per cent which would see some shoppers pay £3 an hour to park - an increase from the previous £1.40. Parking permits in controlled parking zones will also increase by up to 60 per cent.
Parking bays in Crouch End, Green Lanes and Muswell Hill - all dubbed 'high usage' areas by the council - will see motorists paying the highest costs to park of £3 an hour.
Residents paying £15 a year for parking permits will see the cost rise to £20, those paying £30 will pay £50, those paying £60 will pay £95 and those with gas guzzling vehicles paying £90 will now pay £150.
Visitors' and business permits will also increase, while the cost of placing a skip on the street will rise by 75 per cent to £70.
Tags for Forum Posts: high street parking, high streets, parking, parking charges, public spending cuts
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Maddy on
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You could, of course, park in Sainsbury's car park for free and then walk down Green Lanes.
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Permalink Reply by Germana on
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Yes but then we need fewer superstores, not high streets that are more like motorways because they are choking with cars. We probably need to do something about the free parking at superstores too. I don't own a car and contribute much less to environmental pollution and other problems because of it, so if it won't be motorists paying extra money in one way or another to make up for any shortfalls in the budget to pay for vital public services (assuming what you say is true) the money will have to come from somewhere else.
We do need to discourage car use and there is no alternative to this modal shift you seem to worried about. There is yet another war happening in an oil producing country, climate change upon us and various resource constraints in the coming decades, not to mention that no matter what happens, oil prices are not going to go down - so the sooner people get used to changing the way they move around the better.
Having said this, this is probably not the reason why the Council is making these changes to the CPZ. I do sympathise with people who have a strong need to use their cars, but then if they can afford to have a car at all (I can't...) I don't believe they will really have severe problems meeting the new costs, unless they own a gas guzzler and they use their car really a lot without ever trying to think of alternative and cheaper options to move around.
As for local businesses on Green Lanes, I want to them to do well, but they should also learn to serve the local community - and there is loads they need to do to improve on that front (in fact I have to take the bus to go get organic and fair trade food elsewhere for example) - and not just people driving from other parts of London for specialist produce.
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Permalink Reply by John D on
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Unfortunately, not everybody has the time to go to the grocer, the fruiterer, the baker, the dairy, the butcher, the newspaper shop, the chemist, etc. Superstores are part of modern life.
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actually on Green Lanes this type of local shopping would be pretty much possible as everything is close by. The only reason I don't use this as my only place to shop is that there isn't enough variety of the right kind. In particular there is virtually no organic produce so I have to get it from farmers markets elsewhere, veggie box scheme, and yes, delivery services (which also cause pollution so I would be happy to avoid that if more variety was available locally).
This contrasts sharply with for example, Stoke Newington High Street (I used to live around there for many years) where local traders - similar in many ways to traders around here in terms of national origin - have successfully managed to provide a variety of produce and catering appealing both to their national communities and to changing the local population. In particular, both local Turkish restaurants and small high street Turkish run supermarkets are able to cater for people who want ethnic products but also - crucially - organic/fair trade/free range/vegetarian, etc products.
I hope Green Lanes traders are listening. However, sometimes I do wonder whether for the moment they have no interest in changing for real, because they have so much car-based custom coming from elsewhere...which is why they are now worried about these parking charges increases.
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and one more quick point - to be fair to local traders and the Green Lanes traders association. They do of course listen to many suggestions. In particular some time ago I wrote to them after noticing that on their association's website there was plenty of info on how to park around here but nothing on how to get here with public transport. Not only I got a rapid and polite reply, but I see that they have now created a specific page on "getting here" by public transport. Good on them. I just want to make sure I don't sound like I am criticising them unfairly - I am sure they are doing their best to be responsive to feedback from local people but they just need to take this one step further and realise plenty of local people could buy more from them if they adjusted a bit their offers, and this may compensate a bit a the (possible) slight decrease in customers coming by car from elsewhere.
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and...just had a look at a parallel discussion about food on the site which mentions three great items of food which as far as I know are hard to find on Green Lanes - British seasonal asparagus (ok, this I haven't checked, it's an educated guess...), and particularly parmesan and good quality ham. It's not just about the organic products that are missing, as I've said before, it's also the interesting cheeses besides Turkish and Greek products that are seriously lacking.
So instead of fretting about parking charges and their alleged impact on local businesses, let's focus on why none of the local high street shops are selling products like these - which may explain why many of us local residents don't shop there enough and the shops seem, instead, way too reliant on people driving in from elsewhere.
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Permalink Reply by JeremyS on
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I agree Germana. I've always been flummoxed by the local traders' apparent lack of interest in the local market. The local population and is market is mixed. Green Lanes is not.
It's also odd that no new traders have come into the area to serve that market.
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Permalink Reply by Hugh on
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Germana, just adding an article about the Londonist's Top 10 things to do in Haringey, I noticed that the write-up for the off-Green Lanes Michili's on the Gourmet Britain website says that much of its produce is organic.
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Permalink Reply by Danzigger on
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Why is it unacceptable to use parking income to fill shortfalls? Parking charges are a voluntary tax - no-one has to pay them. If driving to the shops on Green Lanes is so important to you, then you should be perpared to pay for it. If you think it's too expensive, then go somewhere else: that's one less car on Green Lanes.
Considering the actual cost of a car journey in terms of the noise, fumes, road maintenance, urban sprawl, casulties etc. etc., motoring is dirt cheap.
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Permalink Reply by Alan Stanton on
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For Pay & Display bays, Danzigger, I guess the main questions are how high meter charges can rise and still be: (a) feasible; and (b) sensible.
Local councils are - in effect - 'marketing' short-stay timeshares on bays in municipal streets and carparks. But the Laws of Supply & Demand operate. Prices too high? Customers turn away; and income falls.
And there's also the Law of Unintended Consequences. Exactly as you say, people can go somewhere else. They can and they do. To stores, cinemas, sports events and so on where they can park for free. The consequences for local traders in Haringey? Perhaps it's killing them softly with our charges?
A further general problem for local councils is not just whether using Parking Income to plug gaps is acceptable. But whether or not it's legal under the Road Traffic Regulation Act 1984 (with subsequent amendments). Unfortunately, when it comes to parking and traffic fines, many local authorities (including Haringey) have sometimes acted as if they are above the law. Mostly they seem to get away with it and end up keeping the money.
But this, as well, has unintended consequences. It corrodes public trust and confidence.
You write that: "Parking charges are a voluntary tax - no-one has to pay them". Well, that's not quite the case for people living in a Controlled Parking Zone. Yes, it's true if you don't own a vehicle. Or, even if you do, it's true if you have a garage or a house with a driveway. But otherwise, choices are limited. You want to park; you need to pay.
Same goes for plumbers and health visitors using these streets. Or e.g. people visiting friends and relations. Or say, volunteers going to check on elderly people.
There's also an issue of fairness. Haringey's increase in CPZ permit charges is intended not simply to cover costs, but to generate more money from residents buying permits. As the council report said: ". . . additional income generated from this review will be used to address the existing base budget issues and will also contribute towards the savings the Council will be required to deliver in future years".
Here's my rough (and imperfect) translation of this elegant, polished and highflown Obfuscandian.
"Hey guys, this price-hike is a winner! It should give us an even plumper and juicier surplus on the Parking Account. And not only can we use it to plug budget gaps from April on. It's the tax-that-keeps-on-giving, as we increase it in future years too.
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Permalink Reply by maggie on
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A rise in visitors permits will really effect me. My son and family come to stay with me for three days every second weekend. They drive here because the public transport route would involve 2 buses, a train ride, a tube journey and another bus ride with a baby and paraphernalia, once here they park the car and use public transport. I pay £234 a year for their visitors parking permits (Day ticket £3 x 3 days x 26). On top of all the other bills, this is a large, extra sum.
People who visit and park in the area are not only here for shopping. Some are elderly, perhaps visiting other elderly friends, or people with mobility problems etc. There are social considerations to the visitors parking permits.
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Permalink Reply by Andy H on
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yep, just got hit for £50 for my parking permit...a nice £20 hike on last year's price...and the controlled hours don't cover Saturdays or Sundays when people use our street (lothair rd nth) as overflow parking for sainsburys/next/argos/homebase shopping, so the only time it would be a help isnt covered!
also, the parking spaces closest to green lanes are usually taken by cabbies from Golden cars regardless of day or time...none of which seem to display a permit!
when i bought my permit, the man in front was screaming at the woman behind the counter because his skip license (not hire, just the permission to put it outside HIS OWN HOUSE) had gone up from the £40 he was quoted on the phone to £70...
thank you once again for sterling work haringey council.
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