Harringay, Haringey - So Good they Spelt it Twice!
I don't think the Council is listening at all
I'm becoming increasingly disillusioned with the readiness of our council to include residents in local or borough wide policy priorities and plans.
Two local issues have led me here. The first is the Council's handling of the Green Lanes Corridor traffic spending and their response to a petition from the residents of Harringay about draft plans. I hope to deal with that soon on a separate post.
The second issue is the long drawn out issue of the banner on Harringay Bridge. There's been much talk - mainly dissatisfaction - on the site about Harringay Bridge. So when an email arrived last year from the Council announcing that the banners would be changed and seeking resident opinion, it seemed like residents might finally get a say.
Here's what the email said
The Green Lanes Strategy Group (GLSG) will soon be considering updating the current banners on the Green Lanes Bridge in Harringay. It was previously agreed by the GLSG that advertising spaces would be made available using the two small banners on both sides of the bridge to generate an annual income in order to be able to provide regular maintenance of the surrounding area of the bridge and to ensure that the banners are updated and kept free of graffiti. It was also agreed that local businesses would be given priority to use the advertising spaces available; the only take up at that time was from McDonalds. The contract with McDonalds is now coming to an end in September 2010. There are now sufficient funds generated through the advertisement to upgrade the banners and replace the small ones to their original display identifying the two wards. However in doing this, GLSG is mindful that no further advertising space will be made available and therefore, no further income will be generated to continue the future up keep of the surrounding area of the bridge and that of the banners.
In view of this, and before any final decisions are taken by the Green Lanes Strategy Group, community representatives on the GLSG are asked to consult with their respective community groups for their views regarding:
1. the possibility of continuing to use the bridge banners for advertising / sponsorship purposes from local businesses.
OR
2. to revert back to the original banners without any advertisements
The GLSG is due to meet in September and I look forward to receiving your comments by no later than the week beginning 30 August.
The banner design was put out to consultation. Please can you provide me with a full copy of the consultation results.
Believing the Council would want local opinion taken into account, Harringay Online ran a survey which looked at a broader set of issues on what locals would want on a new banner. 218 people responded. The survey results in full are attached to this post. Perhaps the most notable finding on the survey was on the matter of what will be written on the banner:
The only replies I received on this submission were:
1. From Nilgun Canver - Thanks Hugh. This is helpful. We’ve got time until Sept. Let’s see what the others will say. Pls. forward to Dasos for me.
2. From Dasos - Thanks again for sending me the outcome of your on line survey – what would also be helpful if you can send me the figures on the number of people in each category that contributed
3. On a side copy from the Gardens Residents Association - So far we have had 9 replies to the GRA consultation concerning the bridge do we want advertising or not on the banners. I will be sending the results to Dasos soon- so if you have not yet voted - please do let me know asap.
I am also attaching below the document I sent in reply to Dasos. message (in 2 above). In addition to providing the breakdown requested, it also summarises other responses received to the 'consultation'.
You can imagine therefore how surprised I was when my next communication on this was the following email from the Council last Monday:
The Chair (of The Green Lanes Strategy Group) has also asked me to attach for your information, the final design for the Green Lanes Centre Bridge Banners (below). The colours of the banners are in the "Haringey Green" although this is not clear from the attached. The banners will be installed as soon as possible.
So on the same day I wrote again to the council, pretty much saying what I've said above; this time to Claire Kober (Leader) cc Nilgun Canver (Chair of Green Lanes Strategy Group & 'cabinet' member responsible). I concluded by saying:
Whilst I can understand that the Council might not want to base decisions on the results of a survey run by Harringay Online, I would expect at least that our survey would act as a flag to local opinion and the Council would run its own consultation. 90% of our survey respondents chose an option other than the one that has apparently been chosen now by the Council. However, as it stands now, no local opinion was sought by the Council on the issue of what legend will be used, despite the very clear signal our work showed about the importance of the issue.
We're trying very hard to work with the Council and support giving local people more say on their neighbourhood. The Council's response to this representation of local opinion leave me quite frankly gobsmacked. Surely this isn't worthy of Haringey.
(Yes. okay by I was miffed).
Two days later the following email arrived:
Dear All
Further to the email below I would like to clarify the last paragraph.
The final design of the 'Green Lanes Centre Bridge Banners' will be discussed and agreed at this meeting (under item 4 on the agenda).
We apologise for any confusion this may have caused.
Kind regards,
Judith Comrie
By way of an interesting footnote. someone forwarded me the following message left by the former Chair of the Gardens' Residents Group on their Yahoo Group (You have to be a Gardens' residents to join):
I know this has already been discussed, but I think the presence of a banner
on the bridge really degrades the area.
So this issue is clearly one that concerns all parts of Harringay, including informally represented as well as formally represented residents.
I guess I must take the Council at their word. Whilst the fact that they've only prepared and circulated one option leaves me more than a little sceptical, and whilst the design suggests that this is a sign for the traders and Green Lanes rather than the whole of Harringay, it may be that after all the Council is willing to find a way of at least making a decent attempt at reflecting residents' views in what is after all the gateway to our neighbourhood.
The meeting that will decide is on Thursday 17 March 2011 at 7.30 pm at Woodlands Park Nursery, Woodlands Road, London N15.
Tags for Forum Posts: consultation, glsg, harringay banner, harringay bridge
- Attachments:
Replies to This Discussion
-
Permalink Reply by 3atkackzc2zta on
-
Hi everyone,
I've proposed this idea to Hugh and he suggested posting on this feed to see what you think. Basically I'm an Illustrator/designer living in the area, I had the idea of authoring a series of workshops with residents to design a banner TOGETHER. I think what the council is missing out on (because of lack or funding and engaging with what we the residents actually want) is that this banner should come from the community for the community to enjoy, as well as being inviting for others visiting the area. So I want to initiate this project which involves the community in the making/creating/designing of the banner and of course deciding on what is written on the banner. I think the very act of working on this banner together, will be beneficial in generating a real sense of community spirit. So I would like to know, who would support me in doing this? Whether you think its a good idea? I feel really passionately about this. This is me wanting to do a voluntary project about something that so many of us feel strongly about. Perhaps if this is successful, I would love to organize an event to celebrate it going on the bridge.
Let me know what you think!
-
Permalink Reply by John D on
-
Nobody has satisfactorily explained why we need a banner at all.
Ban the Banner !!
-
Permalink Reply by Germana on
-
it IS bringing in money...and in days like these....
I personally don't mind the banner at all. First time I saw it I thought it was a good idea to welcome people to the area and I didn't realise there was such a debate behind it. But we could definitely do with something nicer....
So thumbs up to Rachel's idea!
-
Permalink Reply by John McMullan on
-
£100 from me for materials. Unfortunately stick figures and black and white are the extent of my artistic abilities.
-
-
Thats really kind John, thank you! And there's always value in stick figures !!
-
Permalink Reply by Andrew Stillman on
-
Sounds like an excellent idea Rachel. It would be an excellent community project. I hope the council will see the benefit and jump at the idea.
-
Permalink Reply by Hugh on
-
That's great. It's a fantastic idea. As Andrew has said, it would be of real benefit to the community to have the symbolically important entrance to our neighbourhood developed by the community for the community. I would hope we could get the traders support too. I very much hope that the council don't miss out on this opportunity.
-
-
Im really glad for the positive feedback and comments, I really do think this could work. Yes Hugh, it would be fantastic to get the traders involved too. I'll collate some kind of presentation to properly put forward the idea at the meeting.
-
-
Hi all,
I've just had confirmation back from Cllr Nilgun that I wont be able to attend the meeting on thursday, and it is too late for any new banner proposals. Here's what she said;
Dear Rachel,
This is a splendid idea but members of GLSG repeatedly told Hugh that this is unfortunately at the moment not possible as Neighbourhood Management is closing down and commissioning has already been processed. We need to finalise things by the end of March. However, in 2yrs. time we might well be able to take you on your proposal. We’ll add your details into our action plan to re-visit this idea then.
Many thanks,
Nilgun Canver
This is really disappointing. But perhaps hope for the future. I guess I was too late.
-
Permalink Reply by Omotn on
-
To quote from Hugh's original, Judith Comrie said "The final design of the 'Green Lanes Centre Bridge Banners' will be discussed and agreed at this meeting [March 17th?](under item 4 on the agenda)."
But now Cllr Canver says on 15th March "commissioning has already been processed."
Have I understood this correctly?
-
-
Ok, I think we need to set the record straight here. Cllr Canver is mistaken in what she tells you, Rachel. It seems she must have been misinformed.
In fact it seems we may have been led a merry dance. A couple of weeks ago my email to the leader of the council and Cllr Canver which expressed concern about how the decision about the banner had been made generated the following response from an officer:
Dear All
Further to the previous email I would like to clarify the last paragraph.
The final design of the 'Green Lanes Centre Bridge Banners' will be discussed and agreed at this meeting (under item 4 on the agenda).
We apologise for any confusion this may have caused.
Kind regards,
Judith Comrie
I took that as an intention to communicate that the banner decision wasn't finalised.
After Rachel made her offer, on 9th March, I flagged it up to the Traders' Association and Gardens Residents' Association to see if I could their support.
Here are the responses I got:
From: Harringay Traders Date: Thu, 10 Mar 2011 14:49:06 -0000
To: 'Hugh | Harringay Online'
Subject: RE: Offer by artist for bridge banner
Hugh,
The current banner has been consulted thru GLSG sometime ago, and the delivery is committed within this fiscal year. I think your idea has to be presented to the GLSG for consultation and debate, so the final decision rest with GLSG rather than the Council.
I think the idea is sound but will no doubt take some time to finalise. I would suggest the next window of the banner changeover would be more viable subject to GLSG consultation.
best
Rob & Shef
Harringay Traders Assoc
c/o 523 Green Lanes, Harringay, N4 1AN
From: Gardens Residents Association Date: Fri, 11 Mar 2011 00:53:40 +0000
To: Hugh | Harringay Online
Subject: RE: Reply - Offer from Artist re Bridge Banner
Hi Hugh
RE: Reply - Offer from Artist re Bridge Banner
This is great but the commissioning has started for the bridge banners.
We believe that the position we are now in is by stopping the manufacturing of the design that has been put forward will result in the loss of the funding which we have in place - as the wheels are now in motion.
We don't think anyone wants to leave the bridge the way is at the moment. By delaying the process and by carrying out a re-design and further consultation now will mean loosing the funding all together that is in place which must be spent asap.
We would suggest that when the next time the bridge banners are up for redesign which I would assume will be 2 -3 years then that would be the time to put forward / request for local artists illustrators to come forward, which we would support.
We would prefer a competition or on a commissioning basis would be to select 3 artists and pay them a small sum for a sketch designs -
Just to recap:
The consultation carried out by Dasos's dept / via the Green Lanes Strategy Group asking for residents assoc feedback was
No advertising = No revenue for Maintenance
Yes to Advertising = Revenue generated for the Maintenance of the Banners
If yes to banners
What kind of advertising Local -or Corporate
The GRA voted
Yes to advertising
Yes to Local advertising only (and No corporate i.e. Mc Donald's etc)
I hope this helps
GRA
Cllr Canver says "members of GLSG repeatedly told Hugh that this is unfortunately at the moment not possible" and so implies that I knew the banner decision was made and so had misdirected you in suggesting that there was still an opportunity to influence the design. In fact her officer told me that the decision was to be taken this Thursday. I took the officer at her word. As for what the members of the GLSG have told me. All I've been told by other members of the GLSG is reproduced above. This was received after I suggested that you approach the councillor, Rachel.
So a quick recap:
- Council asks for local views on new banner.
- We respond by gathering those views in a professionally designed survey. In a professional report last August, we present the views of the 210 people who responded. The two local residents associations offer the views of 20 people (according to them - see attachment to original post).
- No response from the council till 21st February this year which informed us that the design decision had been taken. It hadn't taken account of the significant number of residents responses in our survey.
- I wrote a letter to the Council leader and cabinet member (Cllr Canver) drawing attention to this failure to respond to residents' views and asking politely for an explanation.
- No response to that email, but it apparently generated an email from an officer saying that the decision had not yet been taken (see above).
- Offer from an artist to design a banner with the residents' views in mind. To be done as a community initiative. I passed this on to a local residents' group and the traders association.
- Their responses suggest that in fact the decision has already been taken and commissioning has started.
- Cllr Canver confirms this and implies that I'd been failing to take into account advice from GLSG.
I mean what do you do? What am I left to conclude about how local democracy works? At least I can stop banging my head against a brick wall. I'll say nothing of the impression this all leaves of how this has all been handled.
© 2024 Created by Hugh.
Powered by
