Harringay, Haringey - So Good they Spelt it Twice!
Proposed Changes to Local Bus Routes
TfL are proposing changes to routes 29, N29 and N41.
Route 29 (Trafalgar Square – Wood Green)
The proposal is to use double-decker buses rather than the bendy bus. This change will have the following impacts on the service:
Route N29 (Trafalgar Square – Enfield Town)
As with the 29, the route will be served by double-decker buses rather than the bendy bus. This change will have the following impact on the service:
Route N41 (Trafalgar Square – Archway - Tottenham Hale)
Changes had also been considered for routes 41, 121, 141, 329, 616, 299, W4, W5, W6, and W10, but none are now proposed.
If you have any comments on these proposal, you are invited to contact the stakeholder team at TfL. The deadline for submitting comments is Friday 13 August 2010.
Full details are attached.
Route 29 (Trafalgar Square – Wood Green)
The proposal is to use double-decker buses rather than the bendy bus. This change will have the following impacts on the service:
- the number of buses per hour will increase; during the weekday peak from 11-14 to 15-19; Weekday/Saturday daytime from 11 to 12; Sunday daytime from 10 to 12; Evenings from 8 to 10.
- there will be a reduction in capacity - the number of people able to use the service will drop between 45 and 65 per hour during peak times.
Route N29 (Trafalgar Square – Enfield Town)
As with the 29, the route will be served by double-decker buses rather than the bendy bus. This change will have the following impact on the service:
- From Sunday to Thursday, the number of buses will increase from 5 to 8 per hour.
- Friday/Saturday the number of buses will go up from 10 to 18 per hour between Trafalgar Sq and Wood Green and 5 to 6 per hour between Wood Green and Enfield Town.
- On Friday/Saturday the number of people using the service will increase from 1,200 to 1,530. (Unfortunately TfL do not explain what the capacity will be between Sunday and Thursday.)
Route N41 (Trafalgar Square – Archway - Tottenham Hale)
- On Friday/Saturday nights, the bus will run every 20mins rather than every 30mins.
Changes had also been considered for routes 41, 121, 141, 329, 616, 299, W4, W5, W6, and W10, but none are now proposed.
If you have any comments on these proposal, you are invited to contact the stakeholder team at TfL. The deadline for submitting comments is Friday 13 August 2010.
Full details are attached.
Tags for Forum Posts: TfL, buses, public transport
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Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by StephenBln on
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told you so.. more pollution for less passenger capacity , plus higher operating costs.. Well done Boris!
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Permalink Reply by Old-Age-Emporium(OAE) on
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I have travelled very comfortably, with about forty other passengers, on an old Routemaster along Wightman Road to a bus driver's funeral (St Paul's Church to Highgate Cemetery). That was in 2007, pre-20mph and pre-traffic calming. About ten days ago a Day Excursion old Routemaster passed smoothly and sedately along the length of the post-traffic calmed Wightman Road.
Now who (and how many) are going to support my proposal that just two buses per hour (n/b and s/b) of those new double-decker 29s should travel Wood Green - Trafalgar Sq / Trafalgar Sq - Wood Green via Wightman Road ?
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Permalink Reply by Anette on
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Great news about the double-deckers being reintroduced on the 29 route. They're safer, and there will be less pickpockets, as these are not "free" as the bendy buses currently are. I am sure the increase in paying passengers and the decrease in scum on the 29 will more than make up for an increase in running costs. Not to mention the safety of the passengers. Stephen, if you've been on the rolling slum that's currently the 29 in it's bendy bus form you'd know exactly what I mean. It's horrible. Did not use to be this bad when it was a double decker.
OAE, no support from me, there's no room for a bus on Wightman Road.
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Permalink Reply by HoL Site Admin on
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The side conversation about the Wightman Road bus has been moved to a new thread started by one of those involved here.
We'll leave this thread for discussion/feedback of the proposed changes to the other routes.
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Permalink Reply by Sapphireblue on
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I get 29 from work at Camden every eve its a nightmare - not enough put on.big queues packed crammed.can't squeeze on sometimes and they're reducing capacity???
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Permalink Reply by Alison P on
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I've a love-hate affair with the bendy buses. Agree with the comments about non-paying customers, pick pockets etc. But how many times have we all seen buses packed with people standing in the aisle downstairs and not letting anyone reach the stairs? And the bendy buses are a delight if you're using the bus with kids, prams etc - far easier to get on and off, and no stairs to navigate. On balance I think its absurd to be spending this amount of money on new buses.
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Permalink Reply by RuthE on
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I like the bendy bus cos you can get four or more prams on plus wheel chair users. Double deckers only have space for two prams or one wheel chair user. Its true though about the non paying bendy bus users who 'forget' to swipe their passes and its rich pickings for the pick pockets who have the shoppers from Oxford st, Camden and then Woodgreen to target.
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Permalink Reply by Mr Growbag on
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I still wonder whether a few more buses but with smaller footprints on the road might actually help improve the level of congestion on Harringay Green Lanes. The 18m long bendies do tend to block junctions/pedestrian crossings, which can't be helping the traffic to flow freely.
Pollution levels will presumably depend on what sort of double deckers are used (would be good to see some hybrid buses serving the route, like some of the 141s).
Perhaps TFL might be hoping to recoup some of the cost of putting on extra buses by ensuring that passengers pay to use the bus (having to get on by the driver) and not having to hire as many free-roaming ticket inspectors?
Think it's going to be a case of wait and see as to how successful this strategy is, but as a cyclist I'm certainly not going to miss the bendies.
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The 18m long bendies do tend to block junctions/pedestrian crossings, which can't be helping the traffic to flow freely.
Let's keep this in perspective, the 18m bus is generally carrying approx. 60-70 people across that junction and the other two or three vehicles involved might be carrying only the driver.. So who should have the right of way..?
Pollution levels will presumably depend on what sort of double deckers are used (would be good to see some hybrid buses serving the route, like some of the 141s).
Yes, but we all know that this won't be the case as hybrid buses are expensive and I wouldn't mind betting that the new buses will be accquired as cheaply as possible.
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Permalink Reply by Ruth on
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The bendy buses are little more than cattle trucks. I have tried to avoid the 29 since they were introduced and will embrace the return of double deckers where I can sit up top and read a paper. You cant do that on a bendy because you are crammed in and they are slower generally. We have to get balance right somehow and even if they are less polluting they cause a lot more stress for people, esp those who have had their purses nicked! and when the inspectors do a mass turn out, the whole bus has to wait ten to fifteen minutes while those without tickets are sorted out.
I believe most people want the DDs back. Travelling round london is stressful enough as it is so lets have something a little more comfortable. And, those on the buses, even if more polluting, are not using cars.
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Is this the first stage for Boris to get rid of bendies? They have long been a concern for cyclists and pedestrians plus fare dodgers are a loss of income. The sweeping rear unit does come very near to kerbs and threaten cyclists and pedestrians. The huge number of fare dodgers will disappear and help with reduced capacity. Goodbye bendy and good riddance.
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