Harringay, Haringey - So Good they Spelt it Twice!
Estate Agents' boards advertising school fetes
I've no doubt school fetes are worthy activities, but do people really need to let estate agents get free advertising by allowing them to set up their hideous boards on their property in return for advertising school fetes. There was even one attached to the rails at the end of a section of Harringay Passageway. Do people find them pretty?
Tags for Forum Posts: estate agents signs, school summer fair signs
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by matt on
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Alan? Surely you're not lost for words ... or ideas. That's not like you.
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Permalink Reply by Alan Stanton on
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Permalink Reply by Liz on
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I may be a bit thick but I don't get this photo. Schools aren't about to start taking money from the gambling industry, so I'm mystified by this visual comment. Too obscure for me, I'm afraid.
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Permalink Reply by Old-Age-Emporium(OAE) on
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I think Alan and John D may have noticed that the original philipAlexander banner is on what's often a very slippery slope.
(Shut up OAE! You've no kids at Harringay/Hornsey schools, so you're the one on a slippery slope.)
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Permalink Reply by Andrew on
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Why are estate agents so bad? What could sponsor a fete? A lawyers firm? An alternative medicine practice? A toyshop? A cinema? A health club? A church? Crack-dealers?
Or are you saying that no business should be allowed near a school under any circumstances?
I know it's very fashionable to stereotype estate agents and say they're all thieving pernicious lying scumbugs - but it's not really true is it?
Shall we just change the debate simply to whether estate agents are good or evil? I don't you think need to have children to join in with this one.
my only dealings with them have been OK - you're always a bit resentful of the way they make you feel like a) you need to offer more for the house or b) you need to accept less for the one you're selling, but that's what makes them good at their jobs.
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Permalink Reply by John McMullan on
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I really did think the debate was about the boards but as I've said, the government should sponsor the schools.
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Another of my failed attempts at humour, Liz. But here are the serious points.
● Should estate agent's boards be exempt from the usual legal rules provided they advertise and contribute to a local community event?
● Which other traders are allowed this exemption? Who decides?
● If the boundary between community and commercial is blurred, it seems to me that enforcement of the rules becomes problematic.
● Where do we want the line drawn for sponsorship? For example, there was an outcry in 2008 about proposals for sponsorship in parks and flowerbeds. Would lamppost ads be more acceptable if all the income went to a local school or non-profit organisation?
I don't have any great new ideas to solve school or PSA funding problems. Some schools have boot sales in their playground. (Including at one time, Earlsmead Primary where I was a governor. There was strong opposition from local residents.) Others run carparking on Spurs matchdays. My personal preference is for funding sources which don't compromise independence. (Donations/ subscription / membership) and the traditional cake and plant sales mentioned here.
But as people have said, this may not be practical. Because this thread is exploring the same limits and contradictions as with all not-for-profit activity. Interestingly, Wikipedia mentions that National Public Radio in the U.S. has underwriting spots - brief statements from sponsors.
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Permalink Reply by PaulG on
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Only just stumbled on this – thanks for the update email, Hugh, got it this am. Gee, guess I missed all the fun here!
Where to start?
Guess I should declare an interest – we have a board outside our house atm advertising a particular estate agenst and also (in small multi-coloured letters) our children’s summer fair.
Now I didn’t have much to do with it, I tend to leave these things to the boss. I’m not actually that bothered about these boards generally although (ironically?) I'm not mad about everyone knowing where my kids go to school. Not everyone is as tolerant as we would wish them to be.
What I am annoyed about though is the person who put the board up has not felt it sufficient to strap the board to the gatepost - although they have done that - but has also chosen to piledrive a whopping masonry nail through the board and into the brickwork. How they will get it out I have no idea. If they damage the brickwork though it may cost them more than the cost of their sponsorship to get it back.
@ Liz
“Forgive me Alan, but how does a window poster raise cash for the school? I'm not clear as to how you would envisage £1000 being made from posters in windows. Do you mean for the EAs to sponsor the posters?”
Why not? Sounds a perfect compromise to me.
That's if you believe that we MUST have estate agents - or someone - sponsoring our school activities.
Why has no-one challenged this assumption?
If there are activities that the school / parents feel are important to improving the lives of pupils and the community (please don't say "moving forward" btw, it makes me ache all over) why should the Treasury not pay for them? The more money we pour into our schools etc the less government will put in. National Lottery, anyone?
“schools are careful not to associate with things that are detrimental to children, such as fast food..”
Hmm… never seen cakes for sale at a school fete? I feel a bit of an anti-antis rant coming on…
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Paulie, of course the Government should pay for schooling. Most PTAs / PSAs will have a constitution which gives them a role of 'enhancing' the experience of the children - not one of providing core educational needs. So, for example, a school may receive a budget for a minimum number of books from the Council and the PSA may enhance this will an extra donation so the children have a little more choice and enough new books to keep them going through the year. Alternatively, the children may be taught all about the Romans at school and the PSA will step in with fund for a tour guide to take them around Roman London.
And yes, I'm ready to be told that I need only to go to the library for books or spend a Sunday morning walking around the old City Walls. The thing is, I do. Hardly had my son mentioned the Great Fire of London topic in his Year 1 than we were down in Pudding Lane and marching around the Museum of London. However, I've calmed down a bit since then and have come to better understand the value of community. Subsequently I went with the whole class back down to Pudding Lane on a PSA funded trip and it is this sort of thing - which ensures the whole class gets to see and do things - which i think it really important. This way, the children move forward together and any who have parents who are not able to step in with their own educational enhancements are not left out.
Please support your local schools and the PSAs, whether it is by attending a school fair, offering your time or tolerating estate agents boards. I don't think you have to have children at a local school to have a say on this but perhaps but perhaps those with grown-up children or no children just haven't recalled or realised the massive input made by parents into schools over the years and the benefits to the community as a whole of their efforts.
As to why estate agents are involved in this - simples! They have the boards. PSAs could approach a cake shop or a clothes shop for help but then it would become very expensive to get boards made.
Cake sales? Absolutely fabulous - encouraging people to make cookies and cakes and buying homemade offerings is brilliant. But if it's about fundraising then more is needed. I am slightly involved in a project to help a local Church raise money for a lift to give access to the less able and the fundraising started on Sunday with a cake sale. It made about £40 - and every little helps but the fundraising target is £40,000. Can people not see larger sums or money are helpful? Once again - please complain about signs for casinos and commercial ventures, litter, anti-social behaviour etc but when it comes to community groups offer a helping hand and a little understanding instead.
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Helen, I really don't mean to be rude but as you were replying to me I thought you might have read my post through. If you had you would have realised that I have children, that I am supporting their school through having a board, that I cannot bear the phrase "move forward", and that the point about cake sales was a sarcastic response to the "fast food" comment. I am on your side - I think!
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@ Paulie re the sponsoring of posters: Do you mean for the EAs to sponsor the posters?” Not a sarcastic comment but a request for clarification. As you can see from the whole thread, Steve Hatch and I are putting our heads together (well Steve is doing the brain work) to look at alternative ways that EAs could help schools raise money subject of course to PSA and school approval. One way could be to have large glossy posters made for windows with of course the EAs logo on somewhere I should imagine. Renting our window space rather than our gardens? Your sarcasm, re the cakes, well, fair enough, but most parents make the cakes themselves and tend to avoid putting all the crap in them that bought cakes might contain - flour, butter, sugar and sultanas tend to be the limit of most cakes in school cake sales.
I once told a doorstepper collecting money for an MRI scanner at a local hospital that I wouldn't put money to his collection/sponsored bath or whatever as I believed such things should be bought through taxes. I shudder at my sanctimony now. The guy was supporting something the whole community needs and cares about and giving up hours of his free time to do it. That attitude has sure come back and bit me in the posterior hasn't it?
I think my point, to OAE and Alan, is to credit us with a little common sense as parents and school communities. There will be no slippery slope as to who will be allowed to sponsor a school event. We aren't about to start asking arms dealers, crack dealers, the porn or the gambling industry to put an ad in the school mag. We tend to stick to working through local businesses through our ties with the Traders Assoc rather than multinationals although some local franchises are generous with material donations like cups, but we aren't about to let McDonalds start running the barbecue. Subscriptions, donations etc are great and we sure aren't going turn them down but as you know, parents in the poorer (or even parts of the wealthier end) parts of the borough are already stretched and asking for money for the school is probably going to be tough for them to find. Helen has eloquently explained why the cake sale/plant sale/fete may be great but it takes a long time to raise real funds that way (and to reiterate what she says about having kids or not to be part of the debate, its nonsense, of course, to suggest that you must be a parent to join in. If OAE can't have opinion on this, then I can't have an opinion on his free bus pass)
With regard to your second point about boundaries. I've already made it plain that I believe boards in the wrong places are a no-no (anyone bothered to complain to Martyn Gerrard yet), large banners in public places are, I believe, illegal, school fete or no, and should be taken up by your local cllr who could perhaps have a quiet word in a school governors ear about it. However, putting a small board up in someone's garden contravenes no rules, it is permitted within certain limits and it is up to the homeowner whether it is there or not. It is not on a par with putting massive signs up on the front of old buildings, or giant billboards on shop sides. It isn't the thin end of any wedge. Commmunity groups have just as many scruples as anyone else and are capable of drawing lines.
btw Alan it was you who convinced me that lamp posts could be decorated attractively by drawing parallels with the Japanese art of street banners and reminding me of the old streets I once lived on decorated up for a festival. See my comments below the picture you posted.
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I did read your post through and I also don't mean to be rude. I addressed the first paragraph to you in response to the point you made about the Treasury. I sometimes find these long threads a little confusing so I thought it would be helpful to link that part of my comments to the original thought.
The remaining paragraphs of my post were addressed generally and intended to explain / highlight some of the issues faced by PTAs / PSAs and raised on the thread. And finally, cake sales have been mentioned by several people. I'm sorry if I have offended you.
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