Harringay, Haringey - So Good they Spelt it Twice!
Windows 11: the privacy risk
ALARMING video about the absence of privacy for users of Windows 11:
A week ago, an expert former Windows developer (linked above) with deep detailed knowledge, posted to Youtube: Windows 11 is a Lost Cause. Truly Destined for the Garbage. Don't Upgrade from 10.
His video is heading for a million views. It underlines the wisdom of not installing "11".
It discusses the extent to which the 11 version is riddled with code that sabotages a user's privacy. My take is that much or most of Microsoft's new features billed as security, are intended to shield all the data—constantly gathered—about the life of an unwitting "11" user that Microsoft collects for the benefit of Microsoft.
About 40% of those who use Windows are "still" on version 10: anyone valuing their privacy should consider staying there.
(BTW, the developer mentions Apple only in passing; he's now 99% on another UNIX-class operating system: Linux).
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I've used Macs for more than three decades and have long been aware they can also run the "Windows" operating system (either with BootCamp or by virtualisation).
As little more than as an experiment, last weekend I installed Windows 10 on a Mac Mini. The Mini could easily have run the bloated, resource-hungry, current 11, but after researching and comparing the two variants, I was confident that 10 was the right choice.
Even though I was installing the "Pro" version of 10 on my 2018 Mac Mini, I was taken aback at the extent of the pushing of other Microsoft products at every turn, all of them unwanted.
I accidentally signed up for a "Microsoft Account" and it took time and effort to undo it, together with all the unwanted effect of this spyware window into one's life. It also took time and effort to delete permanently Microsoft's unloved "Edge" browser (IMO, those who value their privacy should consider the Brave browser, available on all platforms).
I hope I have cleaned up Windows 10 Pro as far as is possible, but I'm half expecting MS to try to push spyware in again, under the guise of a vital security update.
Tags for Forum Posts: 10, 11, AI, Microsoft, Pro, Windows, end of life, privacy, spyware
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by adamvietnam
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Ubuntu all the way! A fast clean easy to use OS.
If anyone want a hand getting to grips with it let me know. I also have a couple of fast Dell laptops running Ubuntu laptops for around £200 if anyone fancies it.
Clive - can you link to the article please.
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Permalink Reply by Clive Carter
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Adam, the link is the second word in my post above, i.e. "video".
When I was a councillor, a colleague and I tried to persuade Haringey's then-CEO to move the local authority's computing needs to Linux and Open Source, partly to save money. We were merely humoured; the council is deeply wedded to its fat Microsoft Licence.
On the other hand, at least Haringey Council has not (yet) been foolish enough to "upgrade" from 10 to 11.
(In a 2018 report titled “Laptop and Desktop Refresh”, the Council stated that their estate at the time was using Microsoft Windows 7 on devices—and that because support for Windows 7 was ending from January 2020, they planned to move to Microsoft Windows 10 by April 2019.)
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Permalink Reply by AndrewAW1
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Sticking with Windows 10 is terrible advice. Security updates have ceased unless you jump through some hoops or pay.
If you want to use Windows, which is the easy option for many, then after installation of 11 spend half an hour going through the various privacy and advertising settings or use a tool like this https://www.oo-software.com/en/shutup10
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Andrew, the "hoops" you describe amounted to one or two clicks:
Security updates for 10 are available for at least another year and I "enrolled" in that programme for free.
After that, I'd be prepared to pay for genuine security updates in order to avoid the terrible risk to privacy that is Windows 11.
I just hope they would be real security updates and not—or not partly—methods by which Microsoft were able to re-install their spyware. On that score, I'll rely on advice from independent developers and not on MS. Are you drinking too much MS Kool-aid: did you actually watch the video from the Windows expert?
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To get the security updates for Win 10 for free you need an MS account associated with the machine and to be syncing your settings via MS.
So basically to avoid Microsoft getting your info in Windows 11 you are voluntarily giving it to them to keep Windows 10 going.
The various AI stuff and telemetry in the video can be turned off in Windows 11, it just takes a bit of effort (or the tool I linked to simplifies it). Personally I also use a DNS blocking service, NextDNS, which cuts out a lot of the MS telemetry too.
By all means let your lack of knowledge keep you on an OS that is rapidly becoming depreciated but maybe don't recommend it to others (there was no mention that it is end of life in your original post).
If you're that concerned about it then don't use Windows (or Google, or Meta, or X).
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Andrew,
If I use Windows 10, then it will be on a strictly limited basis and avoiding browsers. I do not trust Microsoft's intentions.
I'm sure you're right that it "takes a bit of effort" in order to undo all the Zucking BS that MS foists on their users. I'm not sure that most trusting users of Windows 11 would feel confident in taking up your suggestions in order to safeguard their privacy.
I enjoyed Rob Braxman's reference to Zucking BS, which may be a reference to (Mark) Zuckerberg, founder of FaceBook, also known for privacy issues.
"end of life" is mentioned by the Windows expert in the video that I suspect you may not have watched to the end. Is this phrase not intended to frighten users of 10 in order to bounce them into an "upgrade" to the new AI/spyware version?
I'm obviously not a Windows expert, but I am prepared to take advice from others who are, such as:
Tech Radar—I was about to upgrade to Windows 11, but I've decided to stick wit...
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I'm not really sure what the reference to browsers is, just don't use Edge and install Brave or Firefox or whatever.
Again, I linked to a nice, easy tool to limit the reporting back.
The fundamental point you're missing though is that Windows 10 reports back a large number of the same things as Windows 11. It may be missing some of the AI stuff (which is the most easily turned off) but using Windows 10 is worse than using a "cleaned" version of WIndows 11 from the perspective of the things you're concerned about.
End of Life means that updates are ceasing. You can get extended security updates as a sticking plaster by linking it your MS account but that means your bitlocker keys, advertising ID, etc will now be associated with the account on Windows 10, which is what the video was warning about ...
As for those links - guess what else those sites say:
Still Clinging to Windows 10? I've Got 10 Reasons Why You Should Up...
How I Became a Windows 11 Convert
5 reasons why I’m finally upgrading to Windows 11 in January
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End of Life means that updates are ceasing.
Yes, that is reasonable and your interpretation is similar to Apple's longstanding disclaimer, of Not supported or, No longer supported (for updates).
The problem is, it is not Microsoft's language.
Microsoft are trying to scare their customers into worrying that their machine is about to die. Through confected obsolescence, MS marketing is likely to lead to much waste of usable machines. As Rob Braxman suggested, MS's wording may be panicking users of 10.
But as he also suggests, some 40% of all MS users—100s of millions of Windows 10—are still on 10. Surely they can't all be suicidal? Many will be big corporations. Perhaps they not taken in by aggressive MS tactics?
I'm assuming that you don't have a pecuniary interest in MS, but still give the impression of being swept along by MS hype, intended to force new PC purchases or forcing "updates".
Not everyone is uninterested in privacy.
Is not a cleaned 10 not cleaner than a cleaned 11 ?!
Users of a personal computer should not be expected to undo large chunks of an operating system in order to improve privacy. I was obliged to use a third-party tool to finally remove execrable Edge, because it kept coming back from the dead!
Is this not an abomination!
Relatively few will use such a "nice easy tool".
I've added "End of Life" to the tags of this thread.
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Permalink Reply by Dick Harris
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Thank you Clive and Andrew for taking the time to air this important subject. I have been increasingly concerned about privacy and cyber security in recent months but have yet to make big decisions.
I certainly share your suspicion of large tech companies and prefer to avoid them where I can. For example, I have used Firefox as browser and a search engine called Qwant as default for some years and have avoided using any kind of cloud storage.
However, I doubt whether my present set up will be secure for much longer and the problem, as I see it, is how to take the next step without the need to become an expert in this field.
Reading your remarks has been helpful. Thanks again.
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Dick, I claim no expertise in Windows, not least because my lifetime experience is a matter of a few days!
However, what I do claim, is wanting to understand the differences between versions 10 and 11 and the ability to undertake up-to-date research on the comparative merits using powerful artificial intelligence.
Microsoft's “Co-pilot” is deeply embedded in their operating systems (I hope I have succeeded in deleting it completely and finally from my increasingly-clean Windows 10 Pro install).
On the other hand, ChatGPT is platform-independent.
Such independence of operating platform is a vital criterion for me. And for many people, meaningful privacy is too. Privacy is the subject of my original post and of Rob Braxman's earnest video.
You may be amused that I relied on ChatGPT for advice on the best Windows OS for me to install on my Mac Mini (N.B. I have 36 years experience on Macs and would not buy a PC).
Andrew wrote that staying on Windows 10 was “terrible advice”. With due respect to Andrew, I now wonder if some his advice on updates may be inaccurate if not misleading. Since he suggested that sticking with Windows 10 was “terrible advice”, I was inspired to put more detailed questions to Chat.
And I am all the more convinced of the wisdom of downloading, installing and sticking with Windows 10 Pro.
I'll reproduce Chat's answers, unedited, in a following post.
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