Harringay, Haringey - So Good they Spelt it Twice!
Concern at Plans for Hornsey Town Hall Green
A letter in last week's Journal raised the issue of the plans for the green outside Hornsey Town Hall. It's also a timely reminder to us that the planning decision is due shortly and a call to submit your views if you have any.
You can see the full planning application here and the site plan which shows the issue rasied by the correspondednt in the letter to the Journal is here.
You can see the full planning application here and the site plan which shows the issue rasied by the correspondednt in the letter to the Journal is here.
Tags for Forum Posts: crouch end, hornsey town hall
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Clive Carter on
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I regret most of Haringey's conduct about this Grade II* listed building.
But the council is near-certain to ignore public opinion over this because they own and control Hornsey Town Hall and have drawn up the plans they wish to execute. The Planning Committee is little able to recognize conflicts of interest in cases like this and even less are they able to deal with them effectively. They will do whatever they want over HTH.
The fine art deco building was built during the era of an separate Hornsey Borough. After the Haringey take-over followed years of neglect. Now the council are hell bent on selling off the curtilage for property development. The under-used council car park behind HTH could serve as a public car park for a revived town hall and in the long term, a green park at a place which is some distance from open space.
The council's cl/aim to be the greenest in London is about as empty as their car park.
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Permalink Reply by Chris Setz on
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I think we all bear responsibility for this, Clive. This bas-relief from the building seems apt:
Is civc pride compeltey dead?
Should any of our precious Council revenue be spent in the rich west of the borough when the east is so deprived? The Council 's answer, after 1965 when the new Town Hall made this one redundant was apparently no, so, as far as I can tell, they used it as much as they could (as offices and storage) and the unused parts (the meeting hall) fell into slight disrepair due to lack of money and interest. Almost all of it is well preserved on a tiny budget by council officials who care - many original 1930's features designed by the architect (including chairs, tables, light fittings and curtains) are still in use and looked after, for instance.
The clocks did stop, though:
Would you have made a different decision in 1965? Was the council wrong or were they in fact doing their best? How did they get away with underusing such a useful resource for so long?
What should the council do when surrounded by vested interests (including their own)? The central political decision made here seems to me to be that, as they were no longer able to use the space, it should be made to pay for it's own re-purposing. Was that a good thing to decide? Why didn't they decide that in 1965?
I like the building and know something of how we got here. Take a virtual tour of it here It's interesting to see the various groups battle to impose their own will, and sad to see the ill regard many appear to have for the Council, whatever they do.
I think people need to accept a form of collective responsibility.
If the Council, who represent us, get something enacted that has survived the checks and balances we've put in place, then we should realise that they did it on our behalf and support them. The stronger they are, the stronger we are. People should stop moaning about the open door after the horse has bolted.
I don't like the fact that bringing this building back into community use means selling land behind it to developers to build flats. I think the council should find another way of funding an art-based community space. But then again, I'd like to see the whole area (including the Broadway) fitted with a light, openable transparent roof so what do I know?
I don't like the idea of the building being run by a 'cliquey' charitable trust of councillors and locals - seems far too unimaginative to me, but then again, what do I know? How else can the resource be truly 'local'? Must be depressing for them to have to bear such acrimony.
The system we have means people do get disappointed and most seem to blame 'the council'. It seems to me that the effect of this is to make it harder for the council to be effective, because we appear to enjoy blaming the council for our failure in getting them to do what we as individuals want.
In other words, it's self-defeating because the Council is 'us'. Let's be pragmatic and get more actively involved in the political process. Groups like Transition Crouch End, Sustainable Haringey etc seem like fine groups of people who I guess really enjoy what they do in making a difference. Depends whether yours are idle views or if you really care, I suppose. 'The point is to change it' etc but let's not shoot the piano player.
We get the Council we deserve; the Council does it in our name.
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Permalink Reply by Alan Stanton on
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An interesting and thoughtful post, Chris. And great photos!
Many local councils have wrestled with the problem of grand and sometimes beautiful old buildings. Most inherited from times when council areas were smaller; and before the need to retrofiit for energy efficiency; disability access; IT cabling; so-called 'smart working' etc.
I like the work Islington have done on their Town Hall in Upper Street. But they used to have a problem with the former Finsbury Town Hall.
I still think Jane Jacobs was right to stress the importance of civic buildings. In many ways I regret that our offices are now concentrated in the utilitarian River ParkBunkerHouse which contributes zero to Civic Pride.
I was also sad to see the council relinquish Tottenham Town Hall. But we can only spend money once.
The Taj Mahal is a masterpiece and a World Heritage site but it strained the finances of even the Mughal Empire.
(Tottenham Hale ward councillor)
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Thanks Alan.
>>But we can only spend money once.
To what use do you think this room could now be put?
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Chris, you want me to be the fool who rushes into a building where some very committed and hardworking angels have been treading carefully for many years?
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Permalink Reply by John McMullan on
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Restaurant. We could all sit around some C-list Crouch End celeb and watch them eat.
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Permalink Reply by Omotn on
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Haringey will approve the plans, but who will do the development? Haringey almost certainly will not - where would they get the money to finance the development? And could a Local Authority responsibly take on the risk of, for example, a slump in property prices between commencement and completion?
If you were a property developer would you take on a project to build someone else's design, with all the attendant risks and constraints? If you were this developer you would negotiate a contract that showed a profit before you ever did a hand's turn on the Town Hal itself. Any work on the Town Hall itself seems to be still to be a very remote possibility.
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Permalink Reply by Gillian on
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Transition Crouch End have posted this space as a venue for the Big Lunch on Sunday 18 July from 1pm onwards. Come and join us and make an important statement about our use of this much loved public space.
More details on www.thebiglunch.com or http://chati2009.com
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