Harringay, Haringey - So Good they Spelt it Twice!
What would a fair and equitable transport system in Haringey look like?
One that serves the young, old, walkers, drivers, bus users, cyclists, disabled drivers and non-drivers, carers and those with small children …
Such complex issues are increasingly being addressed around the world by convening Citizens’ Assemblies (at government level as well as in local areas, for example), where randomly selected residents (a group of 50-100, commonly) are given expert advice about a topic, which they discuss, and then draw up a set of recommendations. An independent organisation such as the charity Involve supervises the process, including which experts provide the information, and the Sortition Foundation organises the random sample. In our traffic example, the recommendations would then be presented to Haringey Council, who could then act on them in the knowledge that people with different backgrounds and experiences had worked these out together.
The selection process has two levels – initially, several thousand residents are randomly selected and sent invitations, then a stratified random sample is generated from those who reply (and supply demographic details, as well as e.g. whether or not they own a car). So the resulting sample should reflect the demographic etc. characteristics of, in our case, the population of Haringey.
A petition has been organised by a coalition of local groups to ask Haringey Council to convene such a Citizen’s Assembly to clarify what residents want - please sign!
https://actionnetwork.org/petitions/haringey-citizens-assembly-camp...
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Michael Anderson on
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I am not and do not claim to be representative of all people living with cancer. That would be an impossibility. What I can bring are insights that those who have not been through cancer cannot. I formally applied for the post, was shortlisted and interviewed. In the application and interview I had to demonstrate how I could go beyond my personal experience and what I was able to bring to the NHS Cancer Programme that they lacked. For me that has been a number of years working with people with a wide range of cancers, monitoring and improving existing services, planning new ones, running a help group for people with rare and uncommon cancers and more recently establishing the first U.K. charity specifically aimed at raising awareness of anal cancer.
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Permalink Reply by Annabel Gregory on
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That sounds brilliant. A real benefit to a challenged NHS.
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Permalink Reply by Alan Stanton on
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[New version with typos corrected and fresh additions.]
I've been watching videos about the anti-genocide protests in some U.S. campuses. It crossed my mind that maybe Haringey - or other Councils - may not be the best bodies to convene an assembly which aimed at extending democratic practice.
Since English law was changed to install local mayors (or leaders with mayoral powers); (plus mayor appointed cabinets) I assume that many local councils may have steadily become more top-down. This may suit senior staff whose power can be hugely increased. In my view Party groups should be able to have open debate with elements of deliberative democracy. I may be wrong as I resigned from the Labour Party. But I hear whispers that Keir Stalin doesn't allow debate on several key issues.
Though this drift to autocracy is not inevitable especially if there is strong representation by more than one political party. Labour has dominated in Haringey for some years. Made worse by the Leader+cabinet model installed by Blair.
As the Sociologist Max Weber observed just over a century ago, all bureaucracies love secrecy. It's the source of their power. In Haringey and probably elsewhere, it wasn't long before powerful Dear Leaders found ways to avoid what vestiges of public scrutiny remained. For example by removing "real" discussions to pre-cabinet meetings.
Some open Committees were replaced by secret "Boards". Clive Carter a former LibDem councillor is still trying to prise open Haringey "property board" decisions with Freedom of Information requests. Clive recently took his FoI requests to a second tier High Court tribunal.
He tells me that Haringey have lodged two secret bundles of documents with the court about which Clive knows nothing.The ghost of Max Weber may be roaring with laughter!
As we know the wider context is the substantial demise of local newspapers.
A further question arises of who would be the "experts" who advise the Citizens' Assembly? I haven't yet had time to wade my way through the links Annabel Gregory gave us. Hopefully words like new ideas; safe spaces; mutual learning; solidarity; love, and poetry may come up.
Treat this link as a thought experiment. How'd you like an expert live Steven Thrasher?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xaEVsnutDZY
Plainly, this particular example of a citizens assembly may not seem relevant in our own UK era when any CHANGE is literally possible provided it's limited to changes in hairdos or the colour of scarf or tie.
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Permalink Reply by Clive Carter on
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Alan,
FRAUD or losses to
public funds between
£10,000,000 to £20,000,000Re the secret property boards, yes I am as you suggest, still trying to prise open this can of worms.
In the first year of the cabinet of the previous autocratic leader, at least one of the eventual three boards were set up. The most important of which was the Strategic Property Board, nearly half of whose members were also Cabinet Members. That included leader Joseph Ejiofor, who was later Named in a Local Government Ombudsman Report.
That board may have first met in 2018 and it is likely to have discussed the offer to sell Alexandra House at a price closer to its actual value (£10 million: recorded in the Annual Accounts).
After leader Ejiofor insisted it had to be bought—apparently at any price—the council (i.e. our public funds) paid £22.6 million for the office building. Instead of calling the likely bluff of the developer who had acquired an option to buy, that was the decision.
My effort is to try to get the council to act in the letter and spirit of the Freedom of Information Act (2000) and to obtain for public interest, un-redacted copies of the formal valuation for Alexandra House, plus the Board Minutes of the secret meetings.
My information requests including "internal reviews" were over many months met with extraordinary delays and prevarication by Haringey.
Eventually, I appealed to the Information Commissioner who, about 12 months later, sided with the Council, asserting that the council's Exemptions were correctly applied.
As Appellant, I then appealed to the First Tier Tribunal, part of the General Regulatory Chamber ("GRC"), part of the HM Judiciary.
The Hearing was held on 17 April 2024; neither the Commissioner (the Respondent) nor the Council showed up. The council had provided the Tribunal with what is called a "Closed Bundle" comprising 153 pages which, as the name suggests, is closed to me. They later sent in another second closed bundle.
The case is ongoing.
An overlapping police investigation is also described as "ongoing".
Despite council claims that imply the troubles from that disastrous 36-month period of property wheeling and dealing are behind it, there is evidence that at least some aspect of council property continue to be chaotic.
N.B. I have not been a member of any political party for some time and I pursue this matter solely in the public interest.
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Yes, but even if the Council has become more top-down, I don't see that that negates your suggestion of exploring a range of experiments.
'Experts' - these would not of course be chosen by the Council. It would not be difficult to find people who are experts in different aspects of transport - they would not all have the same point of view! I will explore how this selection has been done in other CAs.
- that is an answer to Alan btw.
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Hello Annabel
We agree that a range of experiments would be helpful.
There's an irony that Haringey has had such similar experiments. They were called Neighbourhood Assemblies. Perhaps you once attended them? Not an exact match of course, but still, some possible lessons to be learned.
Meanwhile we are in very bleak times and I am too angry and upset at the unfair and inequitable way Starmer is treating people such as Diane Abbott and Faiza Shaheene.
I will send you a direct message.Alan
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P.S. Here's an independent General Election candidate who had practical experience of politicians who: "instead of telling people what they would do for them they embarked on a massive programme of People's Forums simply to listen to people ... "
If he succeeds he would replace an autocratic rightwinger who says nothing to oppose worsening genocide.
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Yes, he sounds very inspiring.
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'Neighbourhood Assemblies' - do you mean the Forums, which take such an effort to set up, with lots of bureaucracy? Presumably not.
I don't think there's be anything quite like CAs here.
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Oops! I misremembered. They were Area Assemblies.
Yes there's some bureaucracy to do. The Labourer is worthy of their hire,
True - Not the same as Citizen Assembly.
Hmm yet isn't there a sister and brotherhood of face to face cooperative working?
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Latest election news sharpens and deepens reasons to distrust the man who will likely become Prime Minister. Trying to deny his way out of his previous lies appears to be Keir Starmer's default position.
See for example: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-cagLODOGgw
This issue of honesty is crucial when ordinary people are asked to give their time to take part in any sort of participatory meetings; Citizen Assemblies or anything similar. It's fairly obvious why people would quickly tire if they bring honesty to shared debates and inquiry. Yet find out that the people with power who receive their reports respond with vacuity, bullshit or outright deception.
The lies can be a sticky spiders web which pulls other people into covering up for them. You might know about Rosie Boycott and other people in the LibDems covering-up Charles Kennedy's alcoholism.
Or maybe I'm entirely wrong amd it doesn't matter how many mobile phone videos exist of a Boris Johnson lying. Or a Keir Starmer denying pledges and promises he made and has broken. But still their faithful enablers will step forward to "explain" why they must be supported.
Trump, Biden, Johnson, or Starmer, Some bowing scraping courtier will appear.
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Ah yes, I do remember Area Assemblies. They were basically Q&As, if I remember right, run by local councillors for residents. I thought they were a good thing - sorry they were abolished.
But not the same animal at all as Citizens Assemblies, in which Councillors and Council officers are not directly involved. The Council convenes the Assembly, but independent institutions run it.
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