Harringay, Haringey - So Good they Spelt it Twice!

Big savings needed in Haringey. Where should the savings come from?

Now the party's truly over. I've been talking for a while now about the need for local authorities to save something like 20-25% from their budgets. This evening Panorama took up the theme. It's now out there. For Haringey that'll mean savings of something like £80-100m in savings. That's huge! We're facing the biggest cuts since the 1970s. Handled badly, it will be an emergency.

So what do we think? What would we choose? We can sit back and let the Council take decisions or we can share the responsibility and contribute our views. Probably about as exciting as doing your expenses, but something we should probably be doing.

Here's how Haringey's spending is split right now:

So discuss. For more details on Haringey's finances, see this area on their website.

Some rules. Only constructive discussion allowed. If you want to party-politic or bash the Council, please go to another discussion. I'm opening this discussion for constructive discussion only. Break those rules and ya get nuked!

Tags for Forum Posts: cuts, public spending cuts

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Permalink Reply by Chris Setz on May 23, 2010 at 18:10

>>The whole idea is to work with them.
How do we bring this about Hugh? I really appreciate HOL and all the hard work that goes into it - you'd get my vote as our virtual councillor any time...
What are the chances that anything we post here will get done? Is it democratic to give HOL'ers more of a say than the silent majority?

I'm guessing that only the majority party in the Borough (Labour) have any real power to decide on cuts - as far as I can they're split into committees that deal with various aspects of local gov, so it'll be those cttess that implement the cuts I suppose, probably working with whoever directs the treasury.

What I don't know is, do the suggestions for cuts come from them or does the council ask the (non-elected) civil servants (is that called the executive?) for a briefing on what is possible?

I'd ask the civil servants if it was me - the few I've met seem above politics, regarding themselves as long-term 'custodians' of the borough; a view that appeals to me - seems like a check and balance against the excesses of any one party. Apt that

Yes, Minister

is getting a long overdue revival

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Permalink Reply by Hugh on May 23, 2010 at 19:05

I wouldn't necessarily see a discussion of this sort as the sum total of resident input Chris. This sort of conversation might serve a number of purposes, but it would only be a part of a much broader dialogue. Any participatory budgeting would absolutely need to focus on more formal and inclusive element.

The big question for me is, given the potential scale of the cuts, how can councils NOT involve residents in some way?

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Permalink Reply by Clive Carter on May 22, 2010 at 13:35

ALL of us find it difficult to answer the classic tricky interview question, "What do you see as your greatest weakness?". No one likes to answer this at all, let alone honestly.

Whichever way you cut it, identifying savings is going to be a fraught process, with the wider public largely uninvolved whether or not they want to be involved.

The council will not "share responsibility" [for deciding where cuts fall] for a host of reasons. Were the council to "share" the responsibility with the public, it would:

• acknowledge they were not up to the job
• tacitly admit that cuts are possible and needed
• set a precedent that from the council's point of view would be unfortunate
• imply there are areas of spending that there shouldn't have been in the first place

The answer to Hugh's question will not be affected by discussion on social media sites but in the first instance, by negotiation between central and local government.

The instinct of the council will be to resist all cuts. By not identifying the areas of waste and generally showing minimal co-operation with Central Government (leading to no agreement), the likely outcome is that mandatory blanket savings will be imposed (such as a 10% cut across all departments, big and small).

And this will be unfair and won't be best way of accomplishing the goals.

.

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Permalink Reply by Alan Stanton on May 22, 2010 at 15:00

There's a slim possibility of a middle route, Chris, which lets residents "work with the borough" as you suggest ─ bringing together wide public involvement with both professional expertise and the representative role of elected councillors.

But, okay. I'd be the first to accept that a cuts process is not the ideal time for developing Participatory Budgeting; when London and other cities may feel more like Porto Triste.

Ian Willmore, a former Labour councillor and Deputy Leader, has written an interesting short article (due to be published on HoL next week). Ian likens our present situation to a beach before a Tsunami hits. Now there's a cheery thought for a sunny Saturday.

(Labour councillor Tottenham Hale ward)

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Permalink Reply by chico on May 22, 2010 at 16:32

how many overseas towns are we twinned with?
what benefit to the people are they?
how much do they cost the taxpayer?
Barnet is twinned with EIGHT - two in France, one in Israel and one in the USA
chico

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Permalink Reply by John D on May 22, 2010 at 17:05

I doubt if they cost £80 - 100 million. We have to stop picking at scabs. The leg has to come off.

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Permalink Reply by Alan Stanton on May 22, 2010 at 17:50

Picking at scabs, John? As the Tesco slogan says: "Every Little Helps".

But to appease the gods of the market, public services must suffer more than locusts and boils. Darkness and killing of the first-born? Well, not just yet. But the sacrifice has gotta to be in blood.

A leg at least.

Ah, yes. But which leg. John? And more to the point, whose?

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Permalink Reply by StephenBln on May 23, 2010 at 12:04

I doubt they spend anything on this these days.. do they?

However, Barnet did pay for a street sign forty years ago..

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Permalink Reply by Heike Meffert on May 23, 2010 at 13:13

Just to let you and the others know (without a direct connection to the subject):

My hometown Mainz has been twinned with Watford/Hertfordshire since 1956. I do not know whether or not Hertfordshire paid for the street signs over here; I couldn't find any information on that. However, we do have a "WATFORDSTRASSE" and, since 2007, a Mainz-Watford Association. All our exchange students go to Watford and theirs come to Mainz - but I assume that's just the same with all twin-towns all over Germany. We should have taken a photo of the street sign (you-know-who) ;-) - there's none on the internet.