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St Ann’s LTN — feedback and/or objections required

The council has launched an online feedback questionnaire/website for comments and reactions to the St Ann’s LTN to date. The survey window is from today until 10 March; it’s at: stannsltn.commonplace.is

There is a separate e-mail address for “formal objections” to the experimental traffic order (the LTN is, at least nominally, an experiment): traffic.orders@haringey.gov.uk  The deadline for objections is 22 February; anyone doing so is required to set out the specific reasons for their objections, according to the council flyer put through my door.

Sadly, my own experience of corresponding with this e-mail address last autumn is that it results in an auto-response but no dialogue or actual reply, but the council may perhaps have improved on this now that they’re publicising it more widely.

Tags for Forum Posts: low traffic neighbourhoods, traffic

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Permalink Reply by Michael Anderson on February 1, 2023 at 11:39

Hi Don.  On the issue of the email address it’s just a drop box for comments on the traffic order as part of the statutory consultation.  It works the same way as sending in comments on a planning application - they become part of the report on the consultation but are not replied to individually.   If you want a reply to questions it might be better to fill in a general query form as it will be logged and sent on to the person who needs to reply or a ward councillor and ask if they can take the matters up for you.

Permalink Reply by AndrewAW1 on February 1, 2023 at 11:57

I think, as Michael says, the Traffic orders email is for formal comments and won't be answered. The general email address for the LTN is StAnnsLTN@Haringey.gov.uk

The https://stannsltn.commonplace.is/ is part of the consultation too but I'm not sure exactly how it factors into the Traffic Order.

Permalink Reply by Don on February 1, 2023 at 19:33

Thanks, both, for these. Yes, I remember the “StAnnsLTN….” address from the original letter sent to residents just before the scheme started. As for specific answers to questions — I e-mailed Ann Cunningham, the highways chief, on her council e-mail address last August to ask about the Green Lanes traffic mitigation promised in December 2021 by Mike Hakata, but have never received a reply!

When I looked yesterday, there were a handful of comments on the commonplace website, but it’s only just been launched, of course. I found out about it from a card flyer put through my door, don’t know how else people would know about it, and thought it might get wider circulation in adjacent areas by being noted on here, as I assume the council hasn’t leafleted other wards apart from St Ann’s itself.

Permalink Reply by Helen on March 8, 2023 at 21:10

Hi Don + anyone concerned about traffic displacement from LTN's to neighbouring areas,

Thank you for the info above. Ferndale Road, N15 has been really badly impacted by traffic displaced by the St Ann's LTN. I've been tracking regularly on Google maps traffic live and filming the traffic jams, fairly often up to 300metres long along Ferndale Road from the A10 to Elm Park Avenue, as traffic tries to bypass sections of the A10 heading north to Seven Sisters and beyond in the late pm-eve rush. This is the result of the almost 2km distance of closures of north-south through routes, between Green Lanes and the A10 at Seven Sisters (see map).

I am somewhat staggered that:

  • no one at the Council considered the alternative routes traffic would be likely to make (given there are very limited alternative routes)!
  • nor thought to install any traffic monitors in the streets where displaced traffic was likely to and/or started and has continued rat-running upon opening of the St Ann's LTN. 

There was no consultation with residents in this area, nor residents survey either prior to the trial St Ann's LTN, or after 6 months of the LTN operating. I only found out about it since I regularly walk to Green Lanes via Roslyn Road and Cranleigh Road and spotted the signs. I often did the walk before the LTN and if anything it actually feels less safe now (after dark) since there is virtually no traffic (it was pretty quiet before the LTN so I'm not too sure why this area was the focus of an LTN). 

The St Ann's LTN has resulted in the previously quiet resident street of Ferndale Road,N15, which leads to 2 schools and is the cycleway connection to the National Cycle Network along the River Lea,  now regularly looking like this, with traffic heading north bypassing the A10 and St Ann's LTN:   

Whilst I am all for improving the environment for walking and cycling, reducing pollution, low C, etc, LTN's should not be done to the detriment of neighbouring areas, particularly those in areas of deprivation. 

The survey of what residents think of the St Ann's LTN is sadly not going to be at all reflective of the negative impacts of displaced traffic and pollution to this area, most residents being unaware of the survey.  

All rather frustrating.

Thanks for listening.

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Permalink Reply by Helen on March 8, 2023 at 22:51

It's specifically re north-south traffic being displaced to the east of the LTN and as per my text above, flagging there are no longer any north-south through routes in the area of the LTN (between Green Lanes and the A10 at Seven Sisters - a distance of almost 2km across).

Disappointing Haringey Council have not monitored traffic in areas beyond the LTN boundary. That would have shown all the displaced traffic routes!

Permalink Reply by Helen on March 9, 2023 at 10:31

St Ann's LTN Monitoring Strategy, Aug 2022, Haringey's Councils. https://www.haringey.gov.uk/sites/haringeygovuk/files/22-08-23_st_a....

No traffic monitoring is shown on parallel routes beyond boundary roads to the east of the A10. 

From walking within the LTN area much of the monitoring equipment appeared not to be installed until after commencement of the LTN.  Locations of monitoring and dates of installation were subsequently requested via an FOI to the council. Only the strategy was provided, no dates of installation. 

Traffic was not like this in Ferndale Road (the traffic coming down Fairview Rd and Elmfield Park Ave from Stamford Hill) at the end of pm + eve rush before the St Ann's LTN, and it  still occurs regularly i.e. it hasn't dissipated or ceased since it started in Aug 2023. 

Permalink Reply by AndrewAW1 on March 9, 2023 at 11:04

There are a few counts east of the A10 on Parkview Road and Havelock Rd. I don't know if that is the route you are suggesting traffic may be taking, I can't really work out what kind of "shortcut" would involve going along Ferndale Rd but there are sometimes unexpected consequences.

In terms of the counts, the pre-LTN monitoring count was November 21.

There's also the Vivacity counts which have been continuous since January 2022.

Counts and dates can be seen under My Maps here https://my.haringey.gov.uk/Haringey.aspx

Permalink Reply by Helen on March 9, 2023 at 12:35

Hi Andrew,

Thanks, it was the dates the St Ann's LTN traffic monitoring started I was after (the one's shown in the Monitoring Strategy dated August 2022) - were they all installed and when?

I've attached an indicative only, diagramatic plan re the displaced traffic. Please also see the short film clips above (if you are interested)!    

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Permalink Reply by AndrewAW1 on March 9, 2023 at 13:44

The pre-implementation traffic counts for St. Ann's were done in November 21. The Vivacity counts (I don't think there are any of those on the A10) started in Jan 22.

I guess you're suggesting that it is mainly traffic coming up from Clapton that is trying to get through the backstreets (probably to avoid a busy junction somewhere). An interesting exercise would be to look at Google Maps, Waze, etc in the busy periods and see how it directs a car going that way, is it the sat navs that are suggesting that route?

The A10 traffic counts should give an idea of whether the road is much busier and causing traffic to go elsewhere.

Obviously one solution would be an LTN in your area which I believe is the ultimate plan.

Permalink Reply by Helen on March 9, 2023 at 13:21

Extract from, APPENDIX SIX (A): SUPPLEMENTARY GUIDANCE ON LOW TRAFFIC NEIGHBOURHOODS, Transport for London. https://content.tfl.gov.uk/lsp-app-six-a-supplementary-guidance-ltn...

“It is also important to carefully consider the connectivity of local road layouts when planning LTNs. There may be instances where a proposed LTN does not lead to general traffic displacement due to mode shift but has an existing through route with a direct, parallel/convenient alternative in another neighbourhood, potentially leading to acute traffic displacement.”

And in response to the question you have just posted, "If the LTN was not displacing traffic onto your road...would you care?"

Actually yes, I would and do care. I don't own a car (I never have). I walk and use public transport. I care a lot about the environment (and equalities) and always have. 

Permalink Reply by Barrie Birch on February 2, 2023 at 23:13

I have made my objection on the grounds that their LTN plans are flawed and irresponsible if they wholesale dump more traffic onto main roads  ,especially a major London thoroughfare like Green Lanes, UNLESS there is a plan also to improve traffic flow along these major roads. Now we have 3 experimental LTNs. What happens when we have 6, 10, 20?

Our 3 councillors are meeting Mike Hakata. We should demand a meeting with our councillors on LTNs

Permalink Reply by Rory on February 4, 2023 at 16:04

What happens if we have 6, 10, 20? Less traffic on residential streets and less pollution and better health outcomes for residents. Sounds awful. 

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