Harringay, Haringey - So Good they Spelt it Twice!
stroudgreen.org on Harringay Online
There was an interesting discussion on sg.org a little while back about HoL. I picked up on the start of it then forgot to go back to it.
They make some interesting points. sg.org is more sociable. Should we try and encourage more of that? Should Liz and I stand back more? Anything else we can learn from what they've said?
They make some interesting points. sg.org is more sociable. Should we try and encourage more of that? Should Liz and I stand back more? Anything else we can learn from what they've said?
Tags for Forum Posts: stroud green, stroudgreen.org
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Alison P on
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Is sg.org more sociable? I know there are squabbles on here but the tone of some of the entries on this, especially given it being about something fairly uncontroversial, was pretty aggressive. How do they react when its about something really important?!
Interesting comments about the photos. It reminds me of a post on here a while back by someone (who has now left I think) who made all sorts of crypic comments about how easy it was to work out who people were and advocated everyone not using their own names let alone their own photos. I'm with Katey, I think people should be able to choose. Personally I like the fact that I can walk around and recognise people, and I do think using your own name makes it slightly less tempting to post stuff just to wind people up (slightly ...).
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Permalink Reply by Michael Anderson on
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I think we have some fairly "robust" contributions but that's what a open access site is all about. The moderation tends to come from the participants who give a good old dressing down to someone who has gone over the top.
I'm with you on identity Alison. I say hello to more people now on Green Lanes than I have in the pre-HoL days I that lived here (going on 25+)
Michael - Warham Road (the bloke trying to grow a goatee beard)
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Permalink Reply by Liz on
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On the issue of anonimity, here is an article from the Guardian's Comment is Free pages on whether people should post anonymously on the internet with views from both side of the debate.
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Permalink Reply by Old-Age-Emporium(OAE) on
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My favourite poet is Anon.
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Definitely good to have a choice around posting anonymously or not - but my personal feeling is that if people use their real name or photo they have, to some degree, to be more careful about what they say and claims they make about their experiences/things they have done on forums ...I think that's generally a good thing because it may help limit the extent to which people can make things up just to 'prove' their point!
I'm not suggesting that anyone does that on HOL (I wouldn't know!), but it clearly does happen ...a relative of mine is very well known in a minority sport, and she gets all kinds of people posting stuff on forums anonymously about things she's supposedly 'said' to them, done or not done!
I also think that because one of the aims of HOL is to build the feeling of community in the area it is, as Michael says, quite nice if it means you get 'proper' hellos in the real world from other members who recognise your name/photo
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No takers on Eyjafjallojokull (with or without the umlaut say: Ey-ya-fyat-lah-yoeh-kukt) as a nom de plume ?
OK, wait for the big one - it's shorter.
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Permalink Reply by Maddy on
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I looked at the discussion on stroudgreen.org and it had a (to me, slightly agressive) "young men's" feel about it which HoL doesn't - members here are clearly from all ages and walks of life.
I think it's fine to choose to remain anonymous, but I agree that letting other members know who you are creates a greater sense of belonging to a community: it definitely means being a more careful about what you say about other residents or local businesses, though.
I've often wondered, looking at the membership list, why there are so many members of this forum that don't live in the Ladder/Gardens, since I would say the majority of the posts are of interest only to local residents. But that's up to them; if they live on the other side of the tracks they can join stroudgreen.org instead or as well as this.
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I would say that certainly some of the posts on HOL are only of interest to local residents, but I think there are lots of reasons why people join - actually it would be really interesting to know what it is about HOL that makes non-Harringay residents join ...perhaps it's the fact that (in my opinion) the site is quite innovative and I feel somewhat of a leader in what it's trying to do - taking the candidates videos as one example.
The fact that local councillors, journalists, business people, etc use the site is perhaps also indicative that the site may well (as has been said before) be beginning to have some influence politically in the borough, or certainly having potential to do so - the more 'powerful' people percieve a site to be, the more people will be interested in what it's doing. Someone (I forget who - sorry!) mentioned on here the other day that 95% of members seemed to not contribute to the forums ...if this is right then people are, I think, clearly using it for reasons other than just to find out what's happening in Harringay itself. I don't think that's necessarily a bad thing, and I actually think it's a compliment to the site.
In answer to your question about why there are so many members who don't live in Harringay itself Maddy (and I can only speak for myself here, so it would be interesting to hear from others too) ...I am one of those people ...I don't even actually live in the borough anymore. However I spent the first 33 years of my life in Haringey - lived in many different parts of the borough, including both sides of Harringay station at various times, and I went to school in Haringey, as did two of my children. I do some work in the borough now, and still have lots of friends in the area whom I visit/socialise with - therefore for me the discussions/information on HOL are of interest, and I find it a nice way of keeping up with what's going on, find out about new good places to go when I'm over that way, etc.
I feel that in a way though the site is perhaps a victim of it's own success - it seems to me to be very much more than just a site for ladder/gardens residents, and I think particularly some of the difficulties mentioned here around the discussion topics changing really quickly is due to this. I think that it's because it's so good, that it's appealing to those beyond the Harringay borders ...and hence the volume of postings/new discussions that aren't related directly to the immediate local area. The wider/broader the site gets, in terms of membership and discussion topics, the more people it's going to appeal to ...but it does also mean that perhaps it is fast outgrowing it's current format? Hugh has mentioned the limitations regarding 'ning'.
I agree with you Maddy - I think that particular posting on stroudgreen.org did have an aggressive feel about it - it made me wonder if that was the general tone of the site, or just something that came out in that particular discussion ...so I've joined stroudgreen.org to find out for myself. I also used to live in the Stroud Green Ward and am over that way quite a bit, so I find what's going on there of interest too.
...and Michael, I think you're spot on with what you say about different sites fullfilling different purposes - not everyone likes the facebook/twitter style stuff (personally I get bored of that kind of thing very quickly) - but it's good to have something for everyone
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Interesting points about stroudgreen.org. My thoughts, for context, as the person who hosts the site.
I've got a fairly strong commitment to not moderating posts. I believe both in free speech, and the ability of communities to organise themselves. I believe that if you trust people, that will be rewarded in the longer term.
However, the price of that openness is occasionally abusive and aggressive members can influence the overall tone of the site whilst they post. But eventually, they get bored, moderate themselves, or go away. As a result, and despite some pretty colourful abuse in my direction, I have never edited a post nor banned a member (with the exception of some spammers).
My view has been that these short term costs are worth the long-term benefits of genuinely community-owned norms and values. That, and I find overly moderated sites tend towards prissy and paternalistic discussion.
In practice, stroudgreen.org has spawned its own book club, a knitting group and several choir members. It would be hard to do that were the site as male-dominated as the posts you landed on suggest.
But, it's something we're all learning as we go. There's no 'one right way' and all of these different approaches have different trade-offs.
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I think different social sites fullfill different purposes. This one has found it own level and manages a mix of "campaigning" and "does anyone know a decent plumber" content. The Stroud Green one feels more like Facebook or Twitter (without the size restrictions). If that's what people, want that's great!
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Hang on a sec, isn't it already optional to keep your identity a secret on this site? I could have, if I'd so desired, created a name completely unrelated to my real name, set my age as rather not say, my street as other and not uploaded a photo.
So, if someone did want to "troll" then indeed they could, it is just one of the problems with online forums - although I am confident that both Liz and Hugh, as well as a lot of the people who use this site, would identify a "troll" within seconds of them posting and remove any posts/the user. But on the plus side, this anonymity enables people who wouldn't otherwise post to do so.
I personally like the fact that I have gotten to know my neighbours as a result of this site, I decided not to protect my anonymity for that very purpose. As a result of this I have a wonderful friend, who is helping me move house this weekend and am meeting a lovely lady this evening who is supplying me with some climbers for our new garden.
Regarding the negative comments on the Stroud Green website - well, there's no need for it really is there - it is just a bit juvenile (I am sure we can all get along nicely now children). This forum/site (as community sites should all be) is shaped by the users; as someone (I think it was Katey) said earlier, horses for courses, and if the users of stroudgreen.org wish to use their site for more casual and "fun" purposes and steer clear of politics and such alike then so be it.
How about this for a site motto: "N4 or N8 - we don't discriminate" :)
(disclaimer: apologies to those N15 and N22'ers amongst us, or anyone else for that matter - but I just couldn't make it scan!)
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Permalink Reply by Hugh on
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As many of you know, I'm leading a London-wide research project on community sites for London Councils. An early part of the project was to develop a site typology. We've identified eight different types of sites. The form a site takes appears to be shaped by the area they're set up in, the demographics of that area and the goals and skills of the site founder amongst other things.
It's my view that no one type of site is better than another. All serve a purpose. Well run sites like Stroud Green probably have a far greater impact on the neighbourhood and neighbourhood life than most people yet realise.............more on that when we publish the research.
As far as this site's concerned, anyone's welcome and the anonymity thing is a choice that each member is free to make.
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