Harringay, Haringey - So Good they Spelt it Twice!
Should you Vote in the Local Elections
By way of kicking off a discussion, we've picked up the following comments over on another thread:
Any views?
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- Don't vote, John. Mistrust them all and have only really ever had time for Independent MP's -and most of those are barmy.
- Having said all that, if Ms.Nilgun actually is seen to do something concrete over this issue I'd think again (my last vote helped bring Blair into power and I've never fully got over that).
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- Please vote this year. We have some fantastic people to vote for and some complete sharks to kick out.
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- Please don't vote. The more people who don't vote, the more weight MY vote carries. Get ready for an SNP majority :-)
- Seriously, if you don't vote, you have no right to complain about how you are governed.
Tags for Forum Posts: 2010 local elections
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by StephenBln on
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As a non-UK resident, I've been trying my hardest and will continue to try NOT to get involved in your political discussions.. at least not at a party level. (Especially because I find that the bickering that goes on here between the parties rather banal).
BUT I'm becoming more alarmed at the fact that nationally and of course this will also apply locally, politicians generally seem to have gone all quiet on political reform.
Promised by most last year, both tories and labour are running scared of PR because it would mean that either of them would have to delegate some of the power they are likely to gain with with FPTP.. but that is not democratic, because the votes for the candidates other than the FPTP are binned.. and play no part whatsoever in the makeup of a council.
Locally, transferable voting could be an answer, by having two votes, one for a candidate and one for a party. There are probably many who'd like say, to vote Labour, but dislike their particular candidates..
I think this election is just about that.. carry on with status quo or actually bring some long needed reform into the political system.
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Permalink Reply by Malcolm on
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So (and I'm genuinely interested) what is it that you do want?
From where I'm sat (and let's face it, no-one else is sat here or else I'd not be able to type this), you have two choices - play in the current system of democracy or try to overthrow it.
If you play, you have a chance to make changes but they might not be as far-reaching or radical as you wish
If you don't play, you have an infinitesimal chance of achieving a radical overthrow of the current system. Since there hasn't been a revolution in Britain since oh, 1688, I'd say the chances are genuinely negligible.
Which do you honestly believe has most chance of progressing your particular wishes?
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This is genuinely interesting - thanks for sharing. I'm not sure I know what a "libertarian socialist" is if the SWP isn't socialist enough for you - perhaps you could expand?
I'd argue with whether any of the revolutions you list were "out of the blue" - the social and political pressures for all were there and growing before hand. Do you think there's the same level of unrest in the UK today that could realistically lead to a revolution?
So what ways can you fight for change and improvement that progresses your goals that is more effective than engaging in politics? Again, that's a genuine question - I don't know enough about what you're advocating to have any opinion!
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Permalink Reply by John D on
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I do :-)
But what system do you propose to replace captalism ?
If huge cuts to people's living standards are necessary it's because our present standard of living was financed by irresponsible borrowing/lending. Now that the bubble has burst, maybe we can get back to households with one television and meals prepared from the cheaper cuts of meat, rather than double-wrapped llama-meat ready meals imported from Chile.
It's to each according to their needs, not to their desires. But try convincing the public of that |:-)
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Permalink Reply by John McMullan on
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OK, you've won me over. I agree that you should not vote for "at least someone" when you disagree with the whole system.
Hopefully not being too patronising here but I think what you should do is go in there and just spoil you paper. Apparently "Nonof Theabov" does quite well in elections around here. They do count spoiled papers, something we wouldn't be able to do if they went electronic.
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Permalink Reply by Alan Stanton on
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I once went to see the late Tony Cliff speaking. He was asked about participation in parliamentary elections and joked that people could take a pair of scissors into the polling booth and steal the pencil.
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Permalink Reply by Dermot on
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Maurice Brinton nes pas?! blimey i never thought id be reading quotes from Solidarity on Harringay online. Good stuff :-)
Mark pretty much sums up all of my arguments on how far the illusion that voting is somehow 'participation' in the realm of politics, is divorced from everyday life, and only goes to enforce the alienation that many people feel where Politics (capital 'P') does not touch their lives in any way. Except come election time of course.
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Permalink Reply by DavidJ on
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Although many of us have only had 'the vote' for about 70-80 years, I can't help feeling we have got very complacent about it.
I suspect the right to vote your government out may be one of those things that you only really appreciate if you lose it. -
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I suspect, DavidJ, that Anarchists or Libertarian Socialists would say we have no such right. And repeat the slogan: "Whoever you vote for, the government gets in."
But I don't see this as complacency. Rather it's a useful scepticism based on a tradition which insists on direct rather than representative democracy.
And which seems to be flowering again. Take a look, for instance at Neil Jameson's article here. Where even Brown and Cameron are using at least the rhetoric of citizen empowerment.
As a current and wannabe local councillor, I'm also sceptical of how far we'd be allowed to go down this direct democracy route - assuming the parties controlling the Council actually wanted to.
But with what appears to be a welcome and growing appetite for resident involvement, I can see some challenging and fascinating questions being asked after the May election.
Like: what are councillors actually for? What is democratic about electing aduceoops, Leader and letting her/him call all the shots? Can councillors be - as the current conventional wisdom suggests - champions for local communities? When can and should they make their own independent judgements? Or are they really voting fodder to make up the numbers?
Labour councillor & candidate Tottenham Hale. -
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My point is a simple one. I get a little edgy about people trying to take my vote away from me. Men in my family did not get to vote until 1918. So Sylvia Pankhurst's mum was fighting for votes for women at a time when many men did not have the vote. Sylvia, so far as I understand, thought that the right to vote was part of the problem.
Interesting that "Maurice Brinton" was indeed a fictional character. Better known as Chris (Agamemnon) Pallis, rather reknowned neurosurgeon:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC556175/
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Any management structure contains sharks. Not aware of any in Harringay, yet.
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