Harringay, Haringey - So Good they Spelt it Twice!
Local Parties dismiss voters' sense of place
Those of you who've been reading the posts on the site for a while will know that I hold strong views about our sense of place in Harringay..........well in any place really. Our sense of history's part of that, our sense of community is a part and our name is part.
Back in April 2008, Nilgun Canver offered the following:
Today Justin Hinchcliffe, Chair of the Tottenham Tories joined in on Twitter with a tweet apparently ridiculing a voter's wish to have her place of residence recognised as Harringay:
What is it with our politicians. Don't they get it. Many of us simply don't wish to have our area chopped up and repackaged to suit their notions of political entities or boundaries. We have the right to choose - not you.
Are there any other representatives from the local blues and reds who'd care to share their views on this issue? And what of the local Liberals. We've heard nothing from you on this. We'd welcome hearing what you think.
Let me leave the last word to Thomas Burke, writing in 1921:
(See my posting in the history group for more on Burke)
Back in April 2008, Nilgun Canver offered the following:
We've discussed and we have agreed to call the area Harringay Green Lanes and Too much emphasis on Harringay confuses everyone with the borough Haringey and I’m afraid it refers to the Harringay ward and excludes the Gardens and other target areas.
Today Justin Hinchcliffe, Chair of the Tottenham Tories joined in on Twitter with a tweet apparently ridiculing a voter's wish to have her place of residence recognised as Harringay:
What is it with our politicians. Don't they get it. Many of us simply don't wish to have our area chopped up and repackaged to suit their notions of political entities or boundaries. We have the right to choose - not you.
Are there any other representatives from the local blues and reds who'd care to share their views on this issue? And what of the local Liberals. We've heard nothing from you on this. We'd welcome hearing what you think.
Let me leave the last word to Thomas Burke, writing in 1921:
But do you think the inhabitants of those villas will rank themselves with those of Tottenham or Hornsey? Not likely. They are of Harringay. The guide-book was right: it is a suburb with a distinct individuality of its own.
Proud of its lineage, proud of its appearance in thirteenth-century records, it declines to surrender its identity to those who claim lordship over it. Before Tottenham and Hornsey were, Harringay was so often mentioned in ancient documents as to receive the honour of being spelt in six different ways - sure proof of importance. Indeed, the name Hornsey came into currency only through a corruption of Haringhea and Haringey; and it is therefore fit that the stout fellows of Harringay should defend the style and identity of their venerable village from the encroachments of that modern upstart Hornsey.
(See my posting in the history group for more on Burke)
Tags for Forum Posts: harringay name
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Michael Anderson on
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Of course I live in Tottenham constituency, but I don't live in the place called "Tottenham". I've got friends who live on the Gospel Oak estate. Would you really think that they could claim they lived in Hampstead and Highgate just because Glenda Jackson is their MP? I'm think you might find it a bit confusing if someone who lived just behind Finsbury Park tube station told you they lived in Islington.
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Permalink Reply by Justin Hinchcliffe on
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But people DO
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Permalink Reply by Hugh on
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Okay, so our politicians are having fun with this name thing, I wonder if we should think about it too over the next six to eight months. Our politicians have shifted names a bit to the right, left or centre depending on which way you're facing, what would it look like if we did the same and refused to use any alternative.
Let's see we'd have:
Nilgun Widdecombe
Justin Prescott
Tim Foot
...and quite happy to add to or subtract from the list as appropriate.
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Permalink Reply by Alan Stanton on
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Nilgun Widdecombe? Now there's a blend to reckon with! Add in their other names and you'd get Nilgun Noreen Azize Widdecombe. Tremendous.
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Seems like this thread's fast becoming a party political bunfight. Please take note any posts not related to the topic of the thread are going.
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Fine if you delete Cllr. Baker's post and her attack on the Conservatives locally and nationally....
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Justin, you opened the party political salvos in your first posting:
As for the Lib Dems (you did ask, Hugh), Harringay is in the "heart" of Tottenham according to several leaflets that they put out in the recent Seven Sisters by-election (where they came a poor third) to promote the Harringay-based candidate. I'd strongly disagree with them on that. They have, obviously, no sense of geography. The Edge of Tottenham, maybe?
I asked the Lib Dems for their view on the issue. I did not invite party political sniping from any political party. You know from many previous discussions between us that that's not allowed on HoL. But, since the main part of your post was relevant I left it and so thought it was fair to allow the Lib Dems the right to reply. Enough said; case closed.
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Presumably, Hugh, it is a Lib Dem view (given it appeared in several of their leaflets) that Harringay is in the heart of Tottenham?
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Permalink Reply by StephenBln on
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Maybe they omitted to add 'constituency of..' ?
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Dunno Justin. You made the point about their leaflet - which stands as fair comment, assuming it's accurately quoted. I invited their view which they've given. It's up to each person to make up their mind about what that means.
I'm very keen to challenge electoral leaflets of any colour and will announce over the coming weeks how we're teaming up with a national e-democracy movement to allow the recording and e-publication of all local election leaflets fro both local and national campaigns.
I stand ready to challenge any campaign leaflet tosh and it seems to me that locally NO party would have reason to feel complacent about their leafleting record.
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Excellent.
Coming shortly: Election! In Cyberspace everyone can hear you talk tosh.
More transparency and more accountability. It should concentrate the minds of all us electoral hopefuls. Another illustration of Clay Shirky's view of what has significantly changed with Social Media.
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Permalink Reply by David Schmitz on
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The boundaries of boroughs, wards and parliamentary constituencies are ephemeral things which are created or destroyed by the whims of governments or the rulings of the Electoral Commission.
Communities, however, are another matter because they are entirely the creatures of the people who "make them up" in both senses of those words.
Last year, when I was reading Barack Obama's "Deams of my Father" one phrase lept from the page. It read that "Communities had to be created, fought for, tended like gardens. They expanded or contracted with the dreams of men." He could have been writing about Harringay.
My own life here began about 20 years ago when I was looking for a place to live and by chance discovered Green Lanes on a February morning as the sun streamed over the displays of produce - each shop producing a more dazzling cornucopia than the one before.
Shortly after I moved in, some kind neighbours whom I had only just met invited me to join them for Sunday lunch. In a city where it is supposed to be a rare thing to know your neighbours, I soon found that here, there were many people had known each other all their lives and who were more than happy to make newcomers welcome.
Later, when a drug addict who lived nearby lost control of his household and let it become a place of resort for dealers and people with firearms convictions, we had to fight for our community. Now, we are stronger than ever.
We are very fortunate that we have shops and restaurants (often owned by locals) who are devoted to the people who live here, that we have schools which have been reaching out to local residents for years and that we have a model residents' association in the Ladder Community Safety Partnership. In other words, the people here have produced a thriving community, and I feel that it is no accident that a certain pioneering community-based social networking web site should have taken root here.
So should we be proud to be a part of Harringay? Of course we should - not because of some silly vanity that might lead us to think, in estate agents' speak, that we live in an area which "abuts Crouch End borders" - but because we have the benefit of the efforts of some rather marvelous people. People who can organise things like a school fete where you can hear commands such as "Will the African dancers take to the stage please, and will the Irish dancers please get ready."
It is an appreciation of this idea of community which has lead my party to the conviction that more powers should be devolved to communities - as they are really what matter to people - and that powers should be devolved away from artificial constructs such as boroughs. You can read Carolyn Baker's comments earlier in this discussion to get a more detailed idea of what we have in mind.
And what about Tottenham?
As my own role has expanded, I have seen that what we have in Harringay is replicated in many places in this Parliamentary constituency.
There is the Latin American Market at Ward's Corner, Seven Sisters, which is conducting a spirited fight for its life against the forces of property developers and the Labour council.
There is the Jewish community is Stanford Hill, where children outdoors can play unsupervised because neighbours look after each other.
There is the Tottenham Civic Society which fights to preserve the marvelous buildings which make up what remains of our historic townscape.
There are the friends of the various parks, one of which, the Friends of Down Lane Park, Tottenham Hale, is in the thick of the battle to preserve it from property development.
There are the myriad organisations in Broadwater Farm which provide everything from football training to instruction on qualifying in child care.
There are the organisations which provide homework clubs, artistic training and health advice to our younger citizens.
In short, it is very easy to be proud to be part both of Harringay and of Tottenham, just as it is easy to be an enthusiastic European without surrendering ones devotion to Queen and country. One doesn't have to choose.
David Schmitz
Liberal Democrat Prospective Parliamentary Candidate for Tottenham
Liberal Democrat Focus Editor for Harringay Ward
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