Harringay, Haringey - So Good they Spelt it Twice!
Haringey Commits to Rubbish Control at Harringay Meeting
Recent disquiet about Rubbish and waste issues on Harringay Online led to one member asking the Ladder residents' group to host a meeting about it.
Ian Sygrave gathered a handy group of folk from Haringey Council and Veolia to attend. At the meeting last week they set out their stall and responded to a wide range of residents' concerns.
The meeting was a well-attended as local residents' meetings go and there was plenty of involvement in what was a well-run event. I thought it was useful both in distilling the general sense of what the primary issues are as well as getting clear and unequivocal commitments from Haringey and Veolia on dealing with them.
Whilst the causes of rubbish are too complex to be fully covered in a relatively short residents' meeting, the group did appear to reach a consensus on what the key issues are.
Whilst Haringey admitted that they have no magic wand to resolve the issues, their response seemed pretty clear to me and by and large constructive. Almost without exception, for every type of incident, either at the meeting or afterwards in my exchanges with them, they made a commitment to resolve each issue within, what I think seems to be a reasonable time-frame.
To enable them take action, the Council need to be made aware of issues as and when they happen on an ongoing basis. With the current financial constraints, it's an approach that calls for residents to get involved and to be prepared to interact with the Council to mobilise resources, but surely it's worth giving a go.
So, following the meeting, I liaised with Haringey. Then, with their agreement I drew up a list of all the rubbish disposal issues that were raised at the meeting. For each issue I've set out the Council's commitment to deal with the issue, along with the available contact channels. I sent the list to the Council for comment and approval and they have approved it today. In effect they've signed off on the commitments it records.
It's certainly an advance for me. Bar anything I may have missed, there is now clarity on what issues we can report, how to report them, what the Council will do about it and how quickly.
One of Haringey's waste disposal bosses said, "If you come across any of these issues, all you have to do is contact us and we'll get it sorted". I believed that he meant what he said. So let's test it out. Got a waste problem? Find it on the list and report it!
It may be an idea for people to share successes or failures they encounter, both here and/or at future LCSP meetings.
The list is attached below.
Tags for Forum Posts: love clean streets app
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Abi on
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Same here tbh - I've consistently got veolia's message that 'if there's a problem let us know and we'll fix it' which is all very well and usually true, however the problem is systemic and needs more than an ad hoc approach that may be perfectly good when enough people have enough time and energy to complain about it.
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Permalink Reply by Hugh on
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I accept that the solution to this complex and pervasive issue is not as simple as a few calls to sort it out. Issues such as the park rubbish mentioned by Anne-Marie sounds like it's just a matter of insufficient regular attention. So, no, the solution to our borough's rubbish problems is not just a matter residents reporting things.
But I do take the stance that the community cannot simply outsource all waste disposal issues to the Council. As nice as that might be for we residents, there's no reason that we shouldn't take an active and ongoing role in the solution to this problem. Some problems, like dumping, might improve with more aggressive educational campaigns, but a good deal of it will persist because a minority of people are selfish, lazy or reluctant to fund their own waste disposal. What came out of the meeting isn't a panacea; it's no magic wand. Everything won't be lovely from here on in. The council won't deliver perfectly starting tomorrow. But it's a step in the right direction and actively engaged residents can be part of the solution.
Following this post, I've already had one of our councillors on the phone with some ideas on how to better engage the traders and about street washing. I hope that the more focus we as a community put on this issue and the more we're prepared to play our part, the better commitment we'll get from our council and representatives. Simply outsourcing the solution once every four years just won't cut it.
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Permalink Reply by matt on
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Agree Abi. Reporting constantly on something that should be dealt with anyway as part of their contract with the council is simply annoying, like living in a never ending loop!
Of course rubbish shouldn't be dropped/dumped in the first place. Would help however if the bins weren't often overflowing and rubbish falling out, flying around the place. Pavements being washed should be a daily thing for traders outside their premises, a bit of pride. But Veolia also need to do this more regularly as well. It's a joint effort!
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I think we need to differentiate between those things like regularly overflowing bins and things like dumped mattresses. One type of issue suggests that a change in the system would work, e.g. regularly overflowing street bins. The other can't be realistically dealt with in any other way than by rpoering, e,g, fly-tipping.
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Permalink Reply by Katie K on
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Thank you for this. I do use the 'Our Haringey' app, but I also report some things to Haringey/Veolia using Twitter which does seem to work. @haringeycouncil and @veoliauk. Were these avenues mentioned / approved?
Katie
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Thanks Katie. Twitter wasn't mentioned. It's an omission from the list and I'll include it at the next update. The Our Haringey App was mentioned at the meeting and it's on the attached list.
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Likely a deliberate omission - not just for PR face-saving purposes but because Twitter complaints (unlike the app or webform) do not get officially logged. It's in your interest therefore to use the official channels, although Twitter can be useful when you want to chase.
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Permalink Reply by Sarah on
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Their Twitter people always just reply to tell me to call the switchboard between 9 and 5
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Permalink Reply by Justin Guest on
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This is really useful Hugh, and thanks for having the wit to follow this up.
I thought the folks at the meeting from the council and Veolia were all good people who genuinely wanted to do the best they could, but I got a distinct feeling that even they were frustrated at times with with what they had to work with- especially in terms of questions of the various Veolia operatives taking responsibility for the quality of their work. We talked about not picking up dropped rubbish during collections for example.
I am still of the strong opinion that the Traders are a significant part of the problem. Some, Shef and Rob, work really hard, many of the others seem as though they could care less and, frankly, have a positively Third World attitude to how they view the impacts of their operations. The amount of rubbish that blows around the roads because of rubbish they generate that is not secured or picked up after their own rubbish collections, or the putrid run off out of food waste bins on both sides of the bottom of Pemberton are good examples. The Traders should be cleaning up after themselves, and they or the council (on their behalf) should be cleaning the filthy sewage like run off that we have to regularly navigate.
I think they should look again at how they engage with the Traders. I said this, but lets see if they act on the idea.
Until the Traders start having some pride in the environment they do business in this will be a constant uphill battle.
We need to see more of this:
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In my original post, I purposely didn't go into the big themes that came out of the meeting. But yes, the issue of trader-related waste was one of the problems that emerged as a primary theme of concern at tht meeting. I've already had a councillor on the phone about this issue this morning along with some ideas of how it might be addressed with a promise to follow it up.
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Thanks Hugh. If they need residents input I would happily engage with them.
One key issues coming out of the meeting I was not clear on was how much follow up would occur as a result, how much was heard and will acted on. I am glad you have had some political interest, as this really is how things will change.
It sounds like at least one of our Ward Councillors is hearing what their constituents are saying (there are 6 across both sides of Green Lanes folks).
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You're right there was no formal agreement on follow-up. I had in my mind that our holding them to account on their promises would be a start. But a formal ongoing engagement would make sense. I think the LCSP would be the right route for this. There's a sub-committe begging for the creation......and for a chair, Justin!
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