Harringay, Haringey - So Good they Spelt it Twice!
Traffic Meeting last night
Just wondered what people thought of the meeting last night? Do you think it will prove to be productive? I personally felt that we should have continued without the workshops as time was limited. I was disapointed the guy representing Haringey cycling campaign didnt get a chance to speak and neither did the two guys from Arriva. AND the fact that TFL didnt bother to attend. AND that the traders walked out.
How were the workshops? Was there time for a discussion after? Should we have another meeting?
How were the workshops? Was there time for a discussion after? Should we have another meeting?
Tags for Forum Posts: area assembly, area forum, tfl, traffic
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by John McMullan on
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The Arriva guys spoke at the end and took questions from the nuttier element of the meeting. The person complaining about the buses "standing" in Noel park had left so missed out on a chance to have them up on something that I found pretty outrageous. If you were conducting your business on the high street in that manner as a mechanic for instance you'd be shut down pronto.
The workshops were classic divide and conquer, Brian Haley choosing the topics and I guess giving all of them equal importance.
The traders were childish in the extreme. They were basically bullying our democratically elected representatives into giving their view priority. More carparks, which I presume is what they want, means more traffic.
The whole thing left me feeling like I'd wasted an evening. I didn't even have the chutzpah left at the end to remind an intractable Mr Haley that he would be able to be honest with us after we vote him out at the very next chance we get (also I'm personally still scrambling around for any excuse to vote labour myself).
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Permalink Reply by Alison P on
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Personally thought it was a bit of a shambles and that a bit more planning would have done wonders!
I didn't mind the groups - it does work better for some and it allowed discussion of more issues than would have happened with a general forum. I thought the traders were totally ridiculous (basically "I don't care how people get to us, whether they are safe, whether they are in traffic jams - I just care that they can park somewhere"). But I also thought a bit more foresight would have kept them in the room - parking is after all not completely unrelated to traffic Mr Haley!
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Permalink Reply by Old-Age-Emporium(OAE) on
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Seems to me that, after years/decades of non-meeting, last night's themes required at least a full Saturday morning conference of at least four hours. You can't allow for multiple presentations, reactions, working groups, feedback and questions to the panel all in the nominal two hours they'd "planned".
Yes, it should have included 'parking' so maybe we could have clobbered a few self-centered traders over the head with Adam's point as to how most of their customers actually shop.
Hi John, did "the nuttier element of the meeting" include the old guy badgering ARRIVA about the W1 bus?
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No it did not, that was very funny, even they laughed. :)
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It was very funny - I was watching their faces and you could see that they were really confused and worried that you really thought there was a W1 bus!
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Permalink Reply by matt on
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The minute it was mentioned that TfL hadn't turned up, nor the police I knew we were wasting our time being there.
Yes Eddie, it did need a Saturday morning of about 3-4 hours and it needed to be professionally run. Last night wasn't, however the Wightman Rd workshop was useful as we had the head of Transport Policy there.
As for the traders, of course parking is a part of the traffic equation. It was wrong to exclude that topic but their behaviour was also unbelievable. That big guy doing all the shouting ... bet he runs the protection racket.
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Permalink Reply by Hugh on
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On the positive side, it was good that the meeting was held at all. But, I remain cautious about the ultimate outcomes.
In our breakout group we were joined by a key councillor who would not respond to the question "Is there the political will to resolve this". Then at the end of the meeting, we were told that we would get feedback at some point after the outputs of the evening had been crunched by council officers. But, no commitment was made as to when that would happen or even when they could come back to us to tell us when that would happen. In fact I thought our questions on this were taken rather light-heartedly.
Neither do I have any idea on what the remainder of the process will be.
What would have been great would have been a well-managed meeting, a commitment to resolve the issue to the best of the Council's abilities, an outline of the consultation process and a commitment to a date to come back to us with a time for the next step.
So, all in all, I have to confess to feeling let down and with a damaged sense of optimism.
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Permalink Reply by RuthE on
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I think last night should have been canceled in the light of significant people not being able to attend, TFL, David Lammy, the police etc. We should arrange another meeting thats better organised with every relevant subject to be discussed, cycling, pedestrian crossings, extra bus routes and re-routes to get about the borough to reduce the need for car journeys, parking and the impact for local traders, traffic congestion, safety and crime on the buses.
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I think it certainly needs more input. One significant gap last night was much mention of the traffic levels on the Ladder roads. It was mentioned in passing by both Paul from Wightman and to a lesser extent by the LCSP, but it got nowhere near the profile in comparison to the concern expressed regularly on this site and at LCSP meetings.
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Permalink Reply by Liz on
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The positives first. I don't think the 'workshops' were a waste of time. It did give us a chance to discuss the things we were most interested in and everyone had a chance to speak. The officers had more of a chance to talk to people and our comments were at least visibly recorded and passed on. David Lammy's researcher also made copious notes on the proceedings so presumably he will be now well informed on the traffic issue. I also liked the fact that we got a lot of people there to talk who were not 'the usual suspects' and who gave us new and valuable info.
On the less positive side, it was a shambles in terms of organisation and should we get further meetings on this, I would hope, as the politicians say, there are 'lessons learned' and that they improve on this. (I'd be happy to offer my skills in this for a small fee.)
The traders behaved very badly (although I felt one or two were bullied into leaving by that bloke from the dry cleaners at the bottom of Seymour who led the shouting and the walkout. Not sure how many people drive miles to get their dry cleaning done on Green Lanes)
Overall, I have to say that any sense of optimism drained away as soon as the good Cabinet member started to 'feedback'. Even a simple question on timescales was met with the usual hedging and his utter failure to show commitment to resolve the issue was depressingly familiar. However, we do have two Lib Dem and 1 Lab councillor (and a Prospective Parliamentary candidate) who were all present at the meeting and who should be at the forefront of pressing the Cabinet member for more action.
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Permalink Reply by Birdy_Too on
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It was a bit of a shambles last night and with three key parties down the boozer instead it was like listening to a story with several pages missing.
The traders were funny, very hot headed and if they had half a brain I think the floor would have decided that ‘we’ would want to talk about that issue as it is related to traffic. After laughing at the Harringay Ten storm out, I felt quite sorry for them as they have a valid point. The reduction of shops and businesses in the area means a worse area for us to live in. I think Haley was wrong not to give them a platform.
I think the whole process of engaging with the authorities is a long drawn out process and the suggestion of a contact portal / forum to raise issues is vital. It seems to me that the council aren’t really prepared to listen never mind act on peoples concerns.
When will we here and via where, they can’t even organise that, ever likely we have no faith in politicians. Only time will tell whether the council take on board anything we’ve said. This sort of consultation needs to happen at least twice a year, not once a decade.
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Last night’s meeting was just what I have come to expect from Haringey Council, a poorly organised, poorly chaired shambles meant to appease local residents but which will result in very little!
There is undoubted a lack of political will on the majority party’s side on the traffic issues affecting the ladder. Mr Haley showed his usual contempt for local residents’ opinions on this. From previous posts on this site it would seem that our two libdem councillors are putting pressure on the council to resolve the situation and have been doing so for some time. Perhaps a change of political administration next year will really get things moving!
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