Harringay, Haringey - So Good they Spelt it Twice!
Turning right out of Hewitt Road
I got a PCN recently for turning right out of Hewitt Road. I didn't know that the no right turn signs had put in in 2014 and did not notice the signs as I drove through. Before paying the fine I found a thread posted on HoL in 2014 about the high number of fines that had been issued in the space of a few months so put in another freedom of information request to find out what the latest total is. I received the FOI response back one month later so too late for my potential PCN appeal but was still totally amazed to see that there have been a crazy sounding 18,272 fines issued there in the last 4 years. I emailed the council back to see if it could be a mistake but was told that this is the figure from their reports and would appear to be as accurate as they can get.
Just sharing in case anyone else receives a fine one day and wants to try to challenge it / take it up with the council. If anyone has a suggestion of someone I can email to say that more signs should be put in place then please also let me know.
Re: Freedom of Information Act Request
Thank you for your request for information received on 08 March 2018, in which you asked for the following information:
Please can you tell me how many PCNs have been issued for cars turning right at the junction of Hewitt Road / Green Lanes since the signs were put in on 11 May 2014?
18272
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Carol Tennant on
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Jesus.
I can’t remember how much the fine is for this sort of thing, but I’ve assumed, for the sake of doing the maths, that fines are £40, and that everyone paid in 14 days. On that basis (which is conservative and wrong, but useful), they’ve raised £730,880.
I’d have thought that would pay for some extra signage, but it’s obviously a jolly useful income stream.
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Permalink Reply by 26mhcx4vtb0rb on
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Just checked streetview to see there's:
'TURN LEFT' written in the middle of the road.
A big left turn arrow immediately following it.
No right turn signs on lampposts on either side of the road.Unless that's changed since last June, I don't understand how anyone can reasonably claim it's insufficient.
I also don't understand how the number of fines would have anything to do with a potential appeal? They seem to be evidence that a significant number of people either don't pay enough attention when driving, or simply ignore rules at their choosing, neither of which are particularly surprising.
The fines are totally justifiable, because if they weren't issued everyone would be (or would at least claim to be) completely oblivious to the signs, as you have proven.
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Permalink Reply by Rob B on
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"I also don't understand how the number of fines would have anything to do with a potential appeal?"
I didn't get that point either...
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Permalink Reply by John D on
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I'd like to know how much was spent on answering trivial FOI requests 2014 - 2018.
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Fair point. Though Haringey looks to have made at least £1.18m issuing fines on that junction which isn't a trivial amount.
Hewitt Road is one of the only roads on the ladder where you are not allowed to turn right and this has only been the case for a few years. I think the signs can be at least partly obscured by having a van driving in front of you. Not taking in the no right turn signs does indicate people like me are not paying enough attention but I think the number of penalties issued supports that it is easier than it looks to miss those signs, which then suggests Haringey could be looking at why this is the case rather than continuing to collect the cash. If the aim of the no right turn is to reduce traffic on Hewitt then I think it would help to add a sign at the start of Hewitt Road on Wightman Road saying No right turn into Green Lanes.
If Haringey could find a way to fine all the people who speed down Wightman while looking at their phones, this could also be profitable while actually saving a few lives at some point.
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Permalink Reply by Michael Anderson on
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There was a car turning right into Warham (which is not an infrequent occurrence despite the signs) from GL last week and despite a good deal of waving from me and others near the post office he continued his merry way and stuck up two fingers in thanks. Some people simply don’t give a toss.
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Permalink Reply by Liz on
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I have also attempted to alert drivers at bottom of Hewitt but have received similar “thanks” from them for my efforts suggesting that they are perfectly aware of the signs but, as you say Michael, don’t give a toss.
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Permalink Reply by JulieB on
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I think there is a sign at the Wightman Road end of Hewitt that says there is no right turn onto Green Lanes. At least there was one put there before the banning of right turns came into force, it might have been taken down.
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Yes there’s signage at the bottom of the road, but there should be some at the Wightman Rd entrance - all the Gardens Rds say ‘no access to St Ann’s Rd’ at the Green Lanes end. If you enter the road without having been warned that you can’t turn right, you won’t be expecting it, and as you approach the junction, you’re likely preparing to turn and might, as the 18,000+ fines indicate, miss it.
I’ve turned into Hewitt since 2014 hoping to turn right at the bottom, and thinking that perhaps the restriction had been removed because there was no signage at the top of the road.
How would a bit more signage hurt? There may not be enough, and just because you think there is enough, doesn’t (18,000+ times) mean you’re right.
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Permalink Reply by Andrew Stillman on
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didnt your foi request miss a key point here? a critical issue is the distribution of those fines. i think you may well find that those fines are heavily clustered towards the early part of the four year period concerned. for example you mention another thread on hol. i found http://www.harringayonline.com/forum/topics/hewitt-road-no-right-turn which says that four months after the change was started 7081 fines had been issued, thats about 1770 per month. that would mean 40% of the four year total had been issued in the first four months. its reasonable to assume that the level would have stayed high following that 1st foi until people learned about/got used to the change. let's say it reduced by 25% every four months over the next two four month periods. that would have seen the following four months with 5310 and the 3rd period with 3983. that would mean a total of 16, 374 or 90% of the current total. if we said the number of tickets issued halved every four months that would still mean that 70% of the current total had been issued in the first year. however reasonable these assumptions might be we dont know the exact figures, but some such pattern is very likely.
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Permalink Reply by JoeW on
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There were 10,820 penalties issued in the first 11 months or so, so your calculation of 70% in the first year looks pretty close.
In 2015 3481 PCN’s were issued and £211,583 was received in payments.
18272 penalties may seem a big number but it's only a couple of percent of the rat-runners who have used Hewitt in the last four years.
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