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Harringay, Haringey - So Good they Spelt it Twice!

Tree argument

Took these photos an hour ago, Oakfield road N4. The protest is about whether the tree is damaging private property or not and should this perfectly healthy 100yo tree be felled.

(could not find a way to rotate images upright)

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Permalink Reply by Simon on April 14, 2022 at 8:11

Haringey Labour making great claims about their environmental plans in the election clearly nonsense when this is what happens under rule.  

Permalink Reply by Michael Anderson on April 14, 2022 at 8:14

It happens in all local authorities Simon, whatever their political complexion 

Permalink Reply by Dick Harris on April 15, 2022 at 1:02

This is a London plane tree and, beautiful though they can be, I certainly wouldn't want one any where near my house.  This is because my house is built on London clay and any large tree that is close enough to dry out the ground under my foundations would cause subsidence.  "Near" and "large" are both relative terms so, in the end, it is a question of degree.  Left to its own devices, a plane tree can grow to 100 feet tall or even more and it is important to remember that, whatever measures are taken to stop them growing that big, that is what is trying to get out.  The tree shown in this post has been pollarded which accounts for its characteristic appearance.  Here is a picture of a street in Hornsey where the whole line of planes on both sides have been kept in check by pollarding:

Even though these trees are perhaps 7 meters from the buildings, several houses have been damaged and some of the trees have already been removed.

A short distance away, along Priory Road where the trees are much further from any houses, the planes have not been pollarded and are very much bigger:

I don't know how effective annual pollarding is in preventing the spread of roots but, in case anyone doubts how dramatic plane tree roots can be, take a look at the following photo.  It shows an open trench in Willoughby Road right next to one of the large planes that stand on Duckett's common.  I have circled in pink the great roots that are reaching out under the road way. 

Of course, this is a long way from any foundations but - well you get the idea.  No thank you, not near my house.  In my view, street trees near our houses should be chosen for their ultimate potential size and probably planted in contained concrete boxes.  In most cases, plane trees are simply unsuitable on London clay.

Permalink Reply by Jim Walsh on April 15, 2022 at 3:05

Hi dick i respectfully disagree. where would london be without these ancient beings it's not right to blame the tree in my opinion. hope this helps.

Permalink Reply by Dick Harris on April 16, 2022 at 2:44

Sadly, I don't suppose the people who planted all those planes realised how much trouble they would cause many decades later. It would be much the same if they had chosen any other forest sized giants like oak, ash, beech, lime, elm or sycamore. Our streets and most gardens are not big enough for them.

Permalink Reply by Jim Walsh on April 16, 2022 at 3:35

hi dick. don't be sad everythings gonna be ok

Permalink Reply by Andrew on April 20, 2022 at 14:34

I emailed Clare Pappalardo to express my deep disappointment at the council's decision to fell the tree. I wanted to inform others of her response. She replied very promptly and with a detailed and convinving explanation of the background to the decision. I think it is worth summarising for the benefit of HOL readers.

Apparently the council was first informed about a claim for tree root induced damage to two adjoining properties as long ago as 2015. Clare wrote that the council's default position is to robustly defend such claims and they do not remove trees simply on the basis of a threat of legal proceedings or financial risk. They are, however, aware of their potential legal liability for damage caused by tree roots which constitutes a legal "nuisance". This legal principle has been established in several cases which would likely bind the council in any court case. They therefore seek to mitigate the damage (and certainly any further damage) by a regime of pollarding/pruning, which in many cases is successful as much of the subisdence in North London is merely seasonal movement of clay soil. Apparently in this case the re-pollarding did not work after a long period of monitoring, and there was significant evidence that the tree was the main, and possibly sole, cause of the damage, as indicated in a technical engineer's report and an arboricultural report. Apparently the council will already have to pay a very significant sum to the claimants for damage already caused (plus legal costs) but the costs would be considerably greater if the tree is not removed.  

I got the very clear feeling that their decision is absolutely not a knee jerk reaction to a mere threat of court action but rather has been taken after a lengthy period of monitoring the damage and considering the technical evidence. Bearing in mind the financial implications, and however sad it is, the decision does seem sensible in this case.

I suggested to Clare that local concerned residents would be comforted if they could hear this explanation directly from the council but she said that their internal communications team advise not to respond to social media platforms. Whether this is good advice I can't say but she acknowledged that it can unfortunately result in opinions gaining momentum that are not based on fact, are misleading and result in residents being misinformed.      

I hope this summary of my email correspondence is helpful.  

Permalink Reply by Gordon T on April 20, 2022 at 15:04

Thanks for this extended clarification of the issues involved, Andrew.

The tree's location at the junction of Oakfield Rd and Quernmore Rd means there's already a break in the avenue of plane trees - the gap will now be a bit bigger. Oakfield Rd is already a bit patchy - for better local spectacle the unbroken sweep along the curved part of Stapleton Hall Rd raises the spirits, mine at least.

Permalink Reply by Andrew on April 20, 2022 at 15:10

Agreed. And try Cranley Gardens leading up to Muswell Hill for further spirit-lifting. Almost the entire mile-long street is lined with identical pink-blossomed cherry trees (with the odd rogue white variety). Better hurry though while they're still doing their thing.

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