Harringay, Haringey - So Good they Spelt it Twice!
Traffic group meeting this week
Anyone able to give us an update on what happened at the traffic study meeting on Monday? One of the steering group members have suggested "The next couple of months could be critical and we will need to lobby", so would be good if we could all be kept updated on what happens at the meetings.
On a related note, these from the HCC meeting minutes:
(1) Gary Smith of LBH is working on a 2-way scheme for Tottenham lane existing 1-way section
(2) There are sketch proposals for a W bound segregated cycle lane on Turnpike Lane W from Wightman Rd.
(3) Wightman Rd:
- it was agreed the pinch points must go
- filtering ladder roads at the lane a possibility but would increase travel distances for residents traveling E/W.
- Pavement parking should be removed, parking one side of road (alternating) possible.
- Introduce zebra crossings.
- There should be a timed N bound cycle lane on green Lanes as a minimum.
Those all sound interesting. (1) could help a lot with all the congestion that was around the bus stop by the New River there while Wightman was closed. That (2) means up the hill under the railway bridge I think, would be good, I usually ride on the footpath there as the road seems too dangerous.
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by JulieB on
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I can't work out why the data shows very little difference. Like Antoinette I didn't imagine sitting on a bus for at least half an hour longer than normal. Nor did I imagine lots of buses terminating early, particularly ones that had to try to get along Turnpike Lane.
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Permalink Reply by JoeW on
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That's right generally the TFL data did not show a massive problem.
In any case there is a package of options proposed for Green Lanes to improve flow, which should mitigate any possible issues from the packages proposed for the Ladder. There were no compensating measures in place at all during the bridgeworks.
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Permalink Reply by Antoinette on
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I don't think the tfl data took into account the number of buses that simply terminated their journeys without doing the stretch up as far as Mattison Road.
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The data was for the stretch for St Anns Road to Manor House. If the issue was with busses coming along Turnpike Lane (41 for instance) then that wouldn't be included.
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Permalink Reply by Nick on
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Green Lanes wasn't the only affected road. All the East / West traffic was bottlenecked onto Endymion Road and Turnpike Lane. Effects were also seen further afield.
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Permalink Reply by Michael Anderson on
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For those who are interested in the numbers, the data is all in this thread
http://www.harringayonline.com/forum/topics/bus-journey-times-since... -
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"was a complete pain for any resident with a vehicle. Having to spend 30 minutes crawling along Turnpike Lane when only 200 yards from my house was bonkers"
It could also be said that this is exactly what should happen: If there is a serious public policy initiative (rather than lip service) to discourage private vehicle usage, then pain should be inflicted because it will in turn yield results.
Put another way--why should I (and many who are similarly situated), who doesn't have a car and uses a bicycle, be subject to what is convenient to someone else? Why should my children be at serious risk risk of injury simply trying to cross Warham Road? Why should these children and everyone else have to breath noxious fumes from 2500 cut through vehicles that drive up my street everyday, just so you (and those similarly situated) can spend 30 seconds rather than 30 minutes to get to Turnpike Lane in your car?
No disrespect neighbour intended, but one has to break eggs to make an omelette. If the bollards went in or Wightman was blocked like last summer you will benefit as the values of all homes, esp on Wightman Road should increase.
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Permalink Reply by Olly on
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Hi Knavel,
I do have to disagree, noxious fumes are far worse for the local environment with a vehicle ticking over for 30 minutes as opposed to a 30 second journey. A car is at it's most inefficient when it is not moving with the engine running.
I would never suggest that bicycle use should be curtailed and quite like the idea for a bike lane along Wightman. I also agree we should try to reduce the rat running but option 4 and 5 are a sledgehammer to crack a nut and just not viable.
We are a car loving nation and that is not going to change anytime soon. London is nowhere near, or likely to be a car-free city anytime soon. We need adopt solutions that meets everyone's needs, including car owners.
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And what about all the bus users stuck in the same traffic? We, who don't use cars to get to work but do as we are supposed to, and use public transport? The fumes you feel so strongly about are caused by bringing traffic to a standstill. Keep the traffic moving and the fumes dissipate. If the bollards went in, Green Lanes would slow to a crawl again = more fumes, more delays = a step backwards.
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Not just bollards on the ladder. Bus lanes on and parking off of Green Lanes
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Before moving to this lovely area, I spent most of my life in the city of Ghent (B).
That city suffered tremendously from traffic: pollution and congestion. No halfway hacks worked, but only made the situation worse.
Back then, the mayor decided to make himself extremely unpopular with the inhabitants (and especially motorist): he made a large part of the city centre car free (not public transport free), introduced one way systems and banned cars from parking on the city squares and lots of streets. Crazy - if you think about it.
It did not make him successful in the short term, but 10 years later the city was transformed.
The project was featured in the guardian last year:
https://www.theguardian.com/cities/2016/nov/28/car-free-belgium-why...
It is possible to improve things radically, but it takes time for the people to adjust. We all suffered from the Wightman road closure. I started using my bike for trips I would have used my car; defaulted to the train / tube as my first option.
Probably not possible for everyone or always, but if enough change behaviour the general situation improves.
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As much as I am all for anything that comes out of my glorious motherland (Belgium) Ghent has a population of 600k in 465sq miles whereas London has a population of 8.5m in 600 sq miles. What might have worked for Ghent is unlikely to work in London.
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