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Harringay, Haringey - So Good they Spelt it Twice!

I'm not sure whether this has been shared elsewhere on HOL - can't see it in a search but...

We have recently received a note through our front door that the St Ann's Low Traffic Neighbourhood will be implemented on 22 August.

This is a heads-up for anyone living in or driving through the area between West Green Road and St Ann's Road.  There will no longer be a direct route between the two major roads unless you are a bus or have a 'X2' exemption pass. 

Woodlands Park Road, Black Boy Lane, Cornwall Road and Avenue Road will all be closed to through traffic. 

The restriction points will be monitored by CCTV, so no doubt LBH will be issuing lots of PCNs!  Drivers beware!

I attach two documents, one a map of the area showing the traffic cells as they will be after implementation, and the other the supporting document.

Tags for Forum Posts: low traffic neighbourhoods, st anns ltn, traffic

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The only thing that has been exagerrated is the figures used to justify LTN's. 

The Dept of Transport recently published revised statistics showing Zero increase on minor roads in london over the past 10 yrs.  Previously it has erronesouly claimed an increase of over 70%.

Black boy lane and Avenue road are not quiet residential streets that have been blighted by a recent upsurge in road traffic and need to be returned to thier provious tranquil state.  They have experinced heavier traffic use than most residential streets for over 30 years, blackboy lane has two bus routes down it.  

I cycle most places, dont own a car and personally am in favour of road pricing, a doubling of fuel duty and a massive expansion in cycling and public transport use.   I can't see how arbitarily closing some roads and pushing the traffic on to others does anything other than benefit the lucky few who live in the newly becalmed streets to the detriment of everyone else.  its nonsense. 

Yes, there’s always been a disconnection between the council rhetoric and actual experience. To read some of the council justification for the LTN, you’d think Waze and other satnavs had caused a solid stream of traffic through every single road in St Ann’s, 24 hours a day. In practice, roads at the western end (I can’t speak for the Seven Sisters edge) haven’t become any busier at all for at least the last thirty years — they’ve been quiet enough for anyone to walk down the centre of the road at midday, should they wish to.

The problem has always been just three roads which, even then, have had far, far lower accident rates than Green Lanes or West Green Road and were mostly subject to increased traffic only twice a day, at morning and evening peaks. Rather than dealing with the fundamental traffic problems in Green Lanes, the council has taken a sledgehammer to a nut by effectively closing huge areas of the borough, inconveniencing people and failing to offer practical mitigation such as helping improve public transport. Ladder residents are still (understandably) annoyed that Gardens closure many years ago increased their through traffic; closing yet more roads east of GL will simply shunt more traffic to the west and if the Ladder is then closed to traffic, Wightman becomes a “boundary road” — a road already very narrow and deemed by many (including some who argued for the last round of “improvements”) to be even more dangerous than it was before the pavement and carriageway works were carried out. LTNs are not the answer.

The much-vaunted “mini-Holland” scheme in Walthamstow, so often referenced by Cllr Hakata, the council and LTN advocates, improved traffic circulation, walking and cycling for a small enclave of streets in the Walthamstow “Village”, at the expense of residents on “boundary roads”. It also cost £20 million. Imagine what that scale of expenditure could have done to sort out Green Lanes. Instead, the council have chosen to spend 1.25% of that on CCTV and planters because the GLA let them have it as “free” money. It certainly isn’t a long-term solution.

Well said


new studies show that:

LTNs increase the number of cars on the road

They force drivers to take longer routes and drive for longer

Cars sit idle in traffic for longer, increasing pollution, marking air quality worse.

Closing a small number of roads that cut corners makes sense, closing entire areas does not.

I don’t know how this isn’t common sense, I have been saying it since it had been proposed.

I have never seen so much traffic on West Green Road and Green Lanes. 

This needs to stop now.

Do you have a link to these studies?

I'm assuming you didn't mean the article as that makes it pretty clear "... the figures do not prove a link between LTNs and more miles being driven ..."

Andrew— No, but the quoted figures do show increases in total mileage driven in boroughs with LTNs as opposed to those without, so suggestions that traffic “evaporates” appear wide of the mark. I’ve said before that my journey (necessarily by car or taxi) to an NHS clinic in Hoxton is a mile longer than it would otherwise be as a result of Hackney’s road closures; I’m only one person, but there will be lots of other patients who mirror this and the impact across that or other boroughs will be replicated where many other streets have been closed. It’s already the case that closing St Ann’s ward sends traffic on a potentially huge loop around Green Lanes and/or Seven Sisters to get north-south or vice versa, and the extra mileage will only increase as yet more Haringey streets are closed off.

Even more significant is the DfT admission that the basis for calculation of traffic movements (and hence much of the supposed LTN justification) was not just wrong but actually the opposite of what had actually happened.

I don't know enough about the boroughs with LTNs as opposed to those without to make any guess as to whether the two are related. Attempting to draw any conclusion on such basic data is very flawed.

On the DFT data, there's an interesting thread on it here


Thanks Andrew for finding and sharing this thread.  It is a reminder, if ever we needed one, that good reliable data and anecdotal evidence are totally different things.  I hope our councilors will have the courage to stick to the former and be rigorous in improving the quality of the data they rely upon.

I've been pleasantly surprised by how much data has been made available on https://my.haringey.gov.uk/Haringey.aspx

Assuming this continues there should be plenty of transparency around any decisions made for those who want to do their own review of the data.

Looks like data is coming out now. Lots of stuff on https://my.haringey.gov.uk/Haringey.aspx under My Maps and then Streets for People. The Vivacity cameras in particular are very up to date.

Looking at the July - September period there doesn't really seem to be any variation pre/post the St. Ann's LTN on Green Lanes (by the St Ann's junction) and West Green Road (by the Belmont junction). I've only had a very quick look at this though (they seemed the obvious ones to look at) so other people may see different things as they explore.

It’s great to have these data - early days but no obvious difference since the LTN

Anita, why would there be a change in traffic levels at either of these two junctions?



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