Harringay, Haringey - So Good they Spelt it Twice!
St Ann's LTN start date - 22 August
I'm not sure whether this has been shared elsewhere on HOL - can't see it in a search but...
We have recently received a note through our front door that the St Ann's Low Traffic Neighbourhood will be implemented on 22 August.
This is a heads-up for anyone living in or driving through the area between West Green Road and St Ann's Road. There will no longer be a direct route between the two major roads unless you are a bus or have a 'X2' exemption pass.
Woodlands Park Road, Black Boy Lane, Cornwall Road and Avenue Road will all be closed to through traffic.
The restriction points will be monitored by CCTV, so no doubt LBH will be issuing lots of PCNs! Drivers beware!
I attach two documents, one a map of the area showing the traffic cells as they will be after implementation, and the other the supporting document.
Tags for Forum Posts: low traffic neighbourhoods, st anns ltn, traffic
- Attachments:
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LTN map.pdf, 834 KB -
LTN Doc.pdf, 1.1 MB
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Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Dick Harris on
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Congratulations Andrew. A real labour of love. I work from the charts and tables in the final report.
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Permalink Reply by AndrewAW1 on
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Can you point me in the direction of the final report?
I have the data (which conveniently included grid references so it was very easy to plot) but I don't remember seeing a report.
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Andrew, to answer your question above, you can find most of the relevant stuff on the Borough web-site. The final report is a 4.7Mbyte pdf at:
https://www.haringey.gov.uk/sites/haringeygovuk/files/green_lane_st...
At about the same time as this was published, an update of the existing conditions report was issued. This is much more interesting (and is where I get most of my information). Although it is still dated March 2017, the update was made later and this version includes the traffic data collected during the closure. It is a 14 Mbyte pdf and can be found at:
https://www.haringey.gov.uk/sites/haringeygovuk/files/gl_existing_c...
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Don - you wrote: "If the rat-running problem is as severe as the council maintain (though there’s actually zero evidence of it in St Ann’s outside the three critical streets)..."
I can only speak anecdotally but I see first hand the significant amounts of through traffic at the junction of Etherley Road and Cranleigh Road (you may ask how I know it's through traffic but it's pretty obvious from the type of vehicles and the way they are driven). It makes that junction dangerous and noisy and genuinely blights the immediate vicinity. Not in a huge way but it definitely has an adverse effect. I know the LTN will make car journeys slower for local residents - hence the (possible) merit in extending the exemptions scheme to residents - but in my view it's worth it for all the well-rehearsed reasons. Like many, I cycle, walk and drive. Yes I'll curse the delays when I'm doing the latter but driving makes up only a small proportion of my total journeys. And if it causes me, and others, to ditch the car for short local journeys where the delay amounts to a large proportion of the total journey time then that's no bad thing. Of course that won't happen if exemptions are offered to local residents hence my ambivalence about that. I guess we'll all have clearer views after a few months.
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By the way, just for clarity, the post from Andrew above ( https://harringayonline.com/forum/topic/listForContributor?user=3li... ) is a different poster from the other posts from Andrew on this thread ( https://harringayonline.com/forum/topic/listForContributor?user=3t3... )
Rather confusingly the site allows duplicate usernames.
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Permalink Reply by Hugh on
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It does. You can, however change your user name to something unique - harringayonline.com/page/how-to-change-your-member-name
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Thanks, unique unless someone picks the same one I assume.
Does it also adjust the username on existing posts?
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Andrew - I've no first-hand experience of the Cranleigh/Etherley junction, which may well pose a problem; I was thinking of Avondale/Conway/Glenwood, which are quiet enough for learner drivrers to practise their three-point turns and kids to have cycle-riding instruction. The council says this scheme is designed to tackle only three roads in the whole ward and I maintain that crash map stats show that Green Lanes and West Green Road already have far, far worse recorded accidents than any of the St Ann's roads. Notwithstanding Dick's comment about evidence of some traffic "evaporation" when Wightman was closed, it seems to me irresponsible to increase traffic on already dangerous roads at all.
One of the now former St Ann's ward councillors also told me that one effect of closing the bottom of Etherley as a "school street" was to increase traffic further up the road, because parents were now dropping off or collecting children before the closed section, thus increasing both pollution and congestion rather than diminshing it. Not all children (or their parents) live within walking or cycling distance of their school.
Incidentally, while you may be right about "through traffic", neither you nor I (nor anyone else) can be sure if this is so without specific data on the starting/end point of each journey. During the Wightman closure, Ladder residents on HoL inveighed against "through traffic", but the concept is impossible to define. Is someone driving from, say, the St Ann's end of Hermitage Road to Wood Green via St Ann's ward "through traffic" or "local"? When I made my (not entirely) frivolous suggestion of ANPR cameras on the turnings off Upper Tollington Park to catch Ladder residents using the roads there as "short cuts", I was making a serious point: your "short cut" is my "rat-run", and vice versa. Too many LTN supporters give the impression they really want "their" roads to be exclusively for them - because, of course, they're responsible drivers who only ever stick to main roads and would never use "somebody else's" street as a cut-through on a journey outside the area. St Ann's has low car ownership compared to other wards, but I see no sign of empty parking spaces on the Ladder, for instance, where drivers have selflessly given up their own vehicles for the good of everyone else.
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- The 'notion' about through-traffic came from two sources, Firstly was the informal but probably pretty accurate one, which was the wardens standing at the junction with Turnpike Lane. They asked drivers about where they were travelling from and to, but it wasn’t part of any formal research.
Secondly, the offical traffic survey included point of origin and destination analysis. Don't ask me about the methodology, I can't remember, but it was an authoritative part of the survey. Because they have this data, it is now accepted within the Council's traffic department that most of the Ladder traffic is through traffic or rat-run traffic.
So, I'm afraid you're wrong, Don. You, I and anyone else can in fact be as sure as they might reasonably expect to be about the issue of rat-run traffic on the Ladder.
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Thanks, Hugh; I didn't know - or had forgotten - about that. I know I keep banging on about it, but I do think the council is neglectful in not trying to tackle the source of that traffic; and I'd still query where "local" traffic becomes "through" traffic.
If the identified problem is commuters and business traffic from, say, Hertfordshire or Enfield (or even Palmers Green!), then I've always thought traffic controls need to start further out than just St Ann's or the Ladder. Nothing so far suggests LB Haringey is getting to grips with the specific geographical problems of the railway barrier or the use of Green Lanes as a major conduit from the N Circ to Manor House and vice versa. I'm not trying to be a nay-sayer just for the sake of it (or a petrol-head, as I don't drive), but find it very disappointing that the council's making life harder in specific areas but apparently not looking at the bigger picture.
Incidentally - several letters in yesterday's Guardian from people living in LTNs who disagree with George Monbiot on the basis of personal experience. I'd add that a periodic journey I have to make by taxi to a Moorfields clinic in Hoxton is one mile longer than it needs be because of a Hackney LTN road closure; longer journey, more pollution. So we'll see what St Ann's turns out like.
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The only measure that ought to be a factor is 'traffic'. Applying arbitrary and unhelpful definitions such as 'local', 'rat-running', or 'through traffic' do little more than define their users' own subjective biases.
Departing from a ladder road and returning to it affords the driver no more moral right to enter the street I live on than I might have using a ladder road to get from Hermitage to Hornsey. All traffic is 'through traffic'.
What we're really saying is don't use MY street, but I'll use YOURS. An automotive nimbyism and hypocrisy that's swept middle-class homeowners (and the local body voting class).
Given the lack of real evidence-based thinking and the beggar thy neighbour nature of the roll out, this has essentially become a land grab in most London boroughs.
The 'trials' that aren't (and never were) will be here for some time as councils have been forced to leap first. We know it can be decades before they do the look part... especially in Haringey.
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