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Harringay, Haringey - So Good they Spelt it Twice!

Just gone through in detail the consultation associated with Low Traffic Neighbourhoods. The word Low seems to be a euphemism, no traffic neighbourhood seems to be the order of the day.

I do not understand where the council officers get their data. They state that the majority of residents do not own or use a car. So why is it so difficult to park even if you have a parking permit for the CPZ?

I have a disabled daughter and a wife with ME/Chronic fatigue and there will be no allowances for disabled access in either option. Roads are being shut to traffic, the surrounding area will be grid locked at times impacting the buses. With many of the roads having almost only one way in, how do they get deliveries and the refuse lorries in and around the area. The roads are too narrow for even a 7.5 tonne truck to turn around in. It will be difficult for cars to do three point turns.

I have lived in London since 1979, and in the borough since 1988 and in the St Ann's area since 1997. We have loved it. We raised both our children in the area and our disabled daughter (an adult now) has a support system in place.

We have asked for simple measures to make the roads safer without serious disruption to traffic flow. simple speed and weight limit enforcement would make a huge difference, but the council solution is an LTN which will drive a local garage out of business and make driving around the area almost impossible.

I am not in a minority of one, just come round the area and count the number of parked cars.

If this proposal goes through, I will have to take the early retirement I cannot afford and move away from the city I love.

Tags for Forum Posts: low traffic neighbourhoods, st anns ltn, traffic

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JJ B — Yes, the vast majority (mercifully, most are “slight”) are shown on Green Lanes (way, way out in front) and West Green Road, with fewer on St Ann’s and Black Boy Lane and almost none on smaller roads. Not conclusive, but lends credence to my suggestion that the boundary roads are predominantly the most dangerous, not the side roads that would be closed in either scheme, so forcing yet more traffic onto them increases the risk rather than reducing it. BBL looks as though specific measures would help, but that seems inadequate reason for blanket closures. 

Incidentally (for some reason there’s no reply button) in DTW’s post below, I don’t think Langham and Belmont are in St Ann’s.

Without looking at route causes, knee jerk reactions do not solve anything.

Where are these accidents, what time do they happen, and is there a common cause? These are the questions that need to be asked.

If these accidents happen on St Ann's Road and West Green Road, this LTN will do absolutely nothing to help.

If they happen during the school run, then this is much more difficult. The driving and parking behaviour of the school run is diabolical. The LTN may reduce the through traffic but will not stop the drop off or pick up problems. kids running out into the road without looking is an unfortunate fact of life. Accidents of that nature will still happen. Car bumps and scrapes, that form part of the insurance statistics, will still happen because of the school run behaviours.

What is needed is a much more balanced look at the problem over a large area, looking at accident black spots and targeting those. CCTV can be a great help as can speed cameras and HGV enforcement.

Ironically, removing bus stops will also reduce the accident rates as a lot of the crazy behaviour I see every day is drivers behaviour in passing the buses.

Cars speeding is not legal. And yet.

Surely can try to make things better?

but are you actually making things better, or are you making YOUR life better at the expense of others i.e. those that live on boundary roads?

As I don’t live in the LTN area.  I live in one of the areas that will be directly affected by the LTN.  To go back to your point, we live in big city so stop complaining - no I won’t.

"Is this an unreasonable viewpoint?"

I don't know about being unreasonable but you shouldn't flippnatly stop people from at least attempting to finding solutions to problemns that they are having and that are ahve a really negative impact on qulait of life.

So why can't this be about being able to make London, and cities in general, more liveable. Not everyone can afford or wants to move away

Surely, we can love London, chose to live in London and try to make our city safer, less polluted and congested? Is that unreasonable or so crazy? Pollution and congestion is not pleasant or in my opinion ‘normal’ for anyone. Personally, I don’t understand why public space needs to be dominated by motor vehicles. Who decided that was the best option or way to live? Do the less well off, elderly and people with mobility issues need to suffer in the hands of those that can afford to run a car and chose to drive? Sorry, but that does not sound terribly democratic to me.

It's a side effect of cramming people into a small geographic and artificially constrained space with Victorian infrastructure. Maybe that should be the focus? The pandemic proved that commuting for many jobs is unnecessary, why not reward employers who enable working from home?

Ever been to Amsterdam?

I picked up on the "dominated by motor vehicles".

The level of discussion throughout this forum acknowledges that on the whole the roads in the area are generally quiet, so are NOT dominated by motor vehicles. There are some notable exceptions and I live on one of those exceptions.

Today there was a problem in Green Lanes. The 141 and 29 bus routes were diverted along Black Boy Lane. As the buses do not stop in Black Boy Lane, my wife was amazed at the speed that these buses were travelling and how they hit the speed bumps.

However, there is a very big difference between not being dominated by motor vehicles and pushing to excluding them all together.

I think most would agree that Black Boy Lane is dominated by motor vehicles.

If you stop through traffic on Black Boy Lane though then you're probably going to end up with something like Etherly Rd/Rowley Rd being dominated by vehicles. Block Etherly and it will probably be Terront, etc

Trying to do this a street at a time doesn't really work. Obviously there is then the issue of where to set the boundaries and what the impact of those will be.

As you know, none of the LTNs exclude motor vehicles all together. Every single address in the LTN will be accessible by motor vehicles.



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