Harringay, Haringey - So Good they Spelt it Twice!
Should Harringay Online (& similar websites) report all local crime?
There seem to have been a spate of incidents on the streets hereabouts recently and we or other HoL users have added posts about them online.
Reading one response to a crime related post from a member this morning, I was uncomfortable to read that she's starting to feel more nervous about going out now. I'm wondering whether we're doing the community a disservice by providing a platform for these crime stories.
On the one hand, it's good to be informed. On the other, are we responsible for creating more fear than there's cause for?
Is there a middle ground? Could we do things differently that would meet both the desire to inform and the wish not to cause undue concern?
Tags for Forum Posts: scam
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by matt on
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Pip, perfectly put. And I think Hugh has taken your advice - the history photos are back in abundance!
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Permalink Reply by Mary Hogan on
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DOn't know if anyone is watching Charlie Brooker's excellent series on BBC 2 Tuesday nights - 'How TV ruined your life'. In one of the programmes he reminded us how we're genetically wired from our early evolutionary history to be really keenly interested in anything that might be a threat. Nowadays from TV etc, words about and images of threats from crime and disease etc bombard us constantly because people can make money from using this as distractive 'entertainment' where people can take a break from attending to what really matters in reality. Now, reporting crime on a website like this would be for a different reason, obviously, but the same principle applies. Let's not add further to the bombardment. Special alerts on particular scams going on are a different matter.
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Permalink Reply by 3pag4jre6vpsf on
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I think it is an important service, as it keeps us informed of what's happening in our area, making us more aware. Some may say ignorance is bliss but I think its better to know so we can look out for each other.
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Interesting discussion. If everything goes up then I can see how people can get frightened but the sites are wonderful tools to report crime to our neighbours so that we can be aware and the police can pinpoint hotspots and address resident's concerns. Just before Xmas I posted a blog on W14london stating that six shops had been broken into. The police jumped into action because of concerns and some traders beefed up their security. We are pretty quiet round here at the moment.
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Permalink Reply by Peter on
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It IS a tricky one, not least because it's hard to draw general conclusions from criminal incidents or establish a pattern for the area.
My view is that, like anywhere in London, Britain, Europe, the world, incidents can be pretty random and do not give a general indication of the average cime level in the borough. Having said that, I have made a mental note to avoid the Harringay Passage at night based on reports on HoL.
What I do find extremely useful are scam warnings. And I agree that we should also highlight the positive aspects of living In Harringay.
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Finding this thread very interesting. Makes me reflect on how years ago the extent to which local people could be panicked or reassured about crime levels and criminal activity in the borough was purely in the hands of the media, local newspapers - with people being at the mercy of any agendas the local papers may have had.
When I was growing up you only really knew there had been a mugging or crime in the area if you read it in the Hornsey Journal or Haringey Advertiser, or if you saw a load of police somewhere and asked people what had happened. Sometimes people would warn each other about places that were a bit dodgy to walk through on your own, but that was about it. Of course the occasional incident would make the London or national news. Now through new media we have the same issues, but the responsibility is now much more in the hands of individuals, who have the power to spread their word (whatever it is!) much further. As with the newspapers in the past, on sites like HOL things may well be reported in biased ways, distorted, exaggerated (or not) according to the agenda of the poster or administrators of the site.
As I'm not a cynic I would assume most who post on community web sites don't consciously have an agenda, are just trying to be helpful, inform others and warn their neighbours to be careful, etc, etc. But some may have some kind of agenda or cause panic, unwittingly or otherwise. It is really hard to tell the difference. Just as it is with journalists, the press and traditional media.
I don't know what the 'answer' is, and I don't actually think there is one really. I think, as Peter says, it's helpful to be warned about scams. It's also good for people to feel they're not alone if something does happen and being part of an online community is, I believe, a very positive thing in that sense.
I also feel, as someone whose partner owned a house on Pemberton Rd at one time, a little sad that my initial reaction to reading stuff like the reports about the recent rape in the Harringay Passage was 'Thank god I didn't end up living in Pemberton Road and raising my teenage daughter there!'. I'm sad that is my immediate reaction because I grew up in the borough and fully recognise just what an amazing and interesting place it is, with so so many positives. I love Haringey in many ways. However it's not an easy place to live for many, and never has been.
Personally I have been finding HOL a little depressing recently and therefore find myself 'tuning in' less. I don't know whether it really is the case that negative stuff is becomming more dominant on HOL, or if it's just me? I appreciate that there is lots of attention drawn to good things too!
However maybe as HOL continues to develop and gains more members, it is actually just becoming more reflective of the area it serves? Although this means there might be more stuff posted that 'ain't pretty' or that comfortable to read, perhaps it is actually more honest to have all the bad, tough stuff sitting alongside all the really good things that are going on? That is, after all, a bit what Harringay/Haringey is like!
Maybe even split the site in 2 and have 2 logins for it Hugh?? 'Happy Harringay Online' for good news only, or 'Hardcore Harringay Online (tellin' it like it is!)' for those with a stronger stomach? One could choose which to access according to one's mood! ;-)
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Pretty sure my internet settings wouldn't let me access the 'Hardcore Harringay Online' version ;)
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Permalink Reply by Hugh on
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Hardcore HoL - love it!
Whilst we couldn't offer dual log -in, we could redesign the front page to enable people to access the areas they're interested in.
That might mean taking latest activity and latest forum discussions off the front page and replacing it with links to latest discussions by category.
Essentially this is pretty much how more tradition forums work, or newspapers. Ignore the foreign news, move straight to the sport. Or, within the context of the current conversation, ignore the policing and crime section and move straight to the new of local businesses or whatever takes your fancy.
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Permalink Reply by Dick Harris on
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I lived here from 1979-1990 and returned in 2007. My personal experience of local crime (ie which I knew about because it affected me or someone I knew) was extremely low for both periods. The main difference between then and now is the Internet which tells me about many things that I wouldn't otherwise have heard about. We (and I mean especially Internet users) have had to learn to live with the fact that more information is available and this includes the good and the bad. I would say that good information is not only (or mainly) in the form of good news items. For me, it is the people I know through the site, the string of useful tips and getstogether and the connectionsto local politics.
I welcome the information about crime and would only start to worry about it if it somehow became a badge of yobbish honour to get mentioned on Harringay's web-site! For those who begin to fear that Harringay is being submerged in crime it might be helpful to refer to the increasing use of crime maps by the police (see http://maps.met.police.uk/ for London). This is not exactly simple to use and no doubt has its limitations but it will surely get better and better.
Thanks for putting the question. I think you are doing it right already. Please keep the way it is.
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Permalink Reply by Germana on
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Everything has been said already perhaps but for what it's worth I'd like to add that as someone who's recently moved here I have found the recent focus on crime (or has it been a surge in crime??) pretty depressing. It has actually taken quite a bit of effort to remind myself that there are also a lot of nice things about this area, and that really crime levels are not so different from most parts of London. In fact the only times I've been a victim of (relatively minor) crimes I was in Bloomsbury once and in Fulham another time, and the only time I saw a shoot-out, as I've said elsewhere, I was on Oxford Street around 9pm.
When we were looking to move here last year something similar happened - initial enthusiasm due to lots of people living here telling us good things about it, and many nice things on this site, and then....a sudden surge of posts about crime that almost put us off. We then consulted the crime maps and realised that where we were before was very similar in terms of crime levels but did not have an online community discussing it so felt safer.
What I am trying to say is that while we can't (and should not) really stop people posting their concerns on here about things they've seen or heard of - it's worth noting and being aware of the fact that all this openness may end up affecting our own perception of this area in a way that may be slightly distorted (because while crimes are sad, the vast majority of people live here and get home safely every day), and the perception of the outside world, including perhaps nice people's willingness to move here or buy property here. Unless perhaps other parts of London start having similar kind of websites, which will then stop making this area look more crime ridden than others just because there is more information circulating.
So yes let's have the information, but let's try to keep things in context rather than sensationalise, and then let's make sure we also report the great things we experience by living here.
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Germana, With HOL you have potenially a couple of thousand people contributing their experiences to the site. It broadens your scope for hearing of different things about the area, both good and bad. Is all.
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Permalink Reply by Liz on
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and every so often it does us no harm to have a dose of this , from some old bird who has lived here for a loooong time, for the 'newer' members of our community lest they get the impression all we ever do/did on here is wail about the crime and the grime.
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