Harringay, Haringey - So Good they Spelt it Twice!
Violence and "Sea of Wee" Marr Great Concert In Finsbury Park
The Stone Roses gig in Finsbury Park appears to have gone down well with fans and locals alike. Looking at Twitter last night and this morning, most people had a great time and locals have commented that sound levels were lower than they have been before. All good stuff.
On the flip side, there have been some serious flags raised about the way the event was managed - and perhaps of most concern is that the issues were ones that could have been predicted.
In November last year, I reported that SJM, previously dubbed the 'No Toilets Promoter" had applied for a permanent licence to stage events in Finsbury Park. In the article I referred to the issues there have been with this promoter failing to provide sufficient toilets. At a Stone Roses concert in Heaton Park Manchester, there were complaints of the area being turned into ‘one big public toilet’.
The exact same issue reared its head again over the weekend here. On another thread on Harringay Online one concert goer commented "the toilet provision really was the worst I've seen - it's a shame, because it was a storming gig and I had a great time." Another said. "Toilets also an issue, pretty much a free for all up the fence!".
Twitter is also chiming in. @beardywallop tweeted. "Awesome night out at finsbury park stone roses amazing. Organisers need a slap for lack of toilets, wouldn't sit on the grass for a bit!" and @RichGittins commented "@haringeycouncil It was a great weekend but not enough toilets for 45000. Sea of wee. Open sewer in Finsbury park"
Given the notice the notice of this promoter's record on this score, how on earth was this situation allowed to happen?
Urine may not be the worst of it, however. This morning I received a phone call from a local resident who went along to the concert with his wife and a couple of friends. He told me that they were having a great time. As needs must at some point he needed to relieve himself and went off with one of his friends in search of a toilet.
"We couldn't find one", he said, "So, like everyone else, we found the most suitable place. We tried to be as discreet as possible"
"Just after we'd finished, a guy came up to us and said "Oi, what do you think you're doing!". We made placating noises and started to move off. The next I knew my friend was being kicked and punched on the floor. I went to help him and then I was attacked too."
The local told me that although hurt, hopefully it's nothing too serious. But it seems like he and his friend weren't alone in being attacked. He commented, "I was taken to the First Aid tent and within minutes other people were being brought in after being punched in the face too".
There may have been a number of other incidents beyond what he immediately witnessed. On Twitter this morning, @lovetoreapart wrote, "the fight at finsbury park last night was crazy".
Whilst apparently comparatively minor incidents of violence like this may be part of the territory with rock concerts, it's hard not to at least ask the question of whether there was any link between the person who called me getting punched with the fact he had to find a less public and unofficially designated place to urinate.
My best wishes to all that were injured.
I hope we keep on having great concerts in the park. The issues reported should never have happened in the first place and questions have to be asked about how they were allowed. However, they are are quite easy to fix. So, please let's fix them and lets the good times roll - but NOT at any cost.
Tags for Forum Posts: finsbury park, finsbury park events, stone roses concert
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Laura on
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People who use the park regularly will have noticed that it took the best part of a week to set up the barriers, tents, stage and other building works for this gig. It is not just a case of the park being used for two evenings. For several days before the concerts the park was absolutely full of large trucks, lorries, cranes, and many people. The vehicles were using the ring road round the outside of the park for days and the wall-like barrier was erected well before the weekend. In short, the park was partially out of action for many days before the events. It was no longer somewhere a peaceful to walk, exercise, relax and de-stress. For this reason I really would not want to see regular concerts in Finsbury Park.
Also, I would also be interested to know, (I'm sure there is someone who visits this website who keeps a close eye on LB Haringey finances) how much the Borough receives for allowing events like this to take over the Park.
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Permalink Reply by William Booth on
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Yes, this is what annoyed me most about it. The park was a complete warzone from about a week before and was still largely fenced off yesterday, two days after the second concert. I don't necessarily object to having concerts in the park but they should not disrupt the use of the park as a park for non-concert goers for the best part of two weeks.
I haven't seen the sewage damage in full yet but I tried to look through the fence and saw a big puddle of mud on the long slope on the southeast side of the park which looked worrying.
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Permalink Reply by Madeline on
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I was told by quite a few people that they took down the park fence on the Seven Sisters road side. Now whilst I can understand that, H&S issues on exiting etc, they should have put it back again immediately. As it was I got reports on Sunday of dogs making a bid for freedom with no fence to block their way. Indeed there was a narrow miss when one woman's dog ran out into the road and almost caused a pile-up. The implication for young children's safety is also an issue here. But they, the promoters, where OK. They had their own impenetrable fence that protected them and their gear. It was a case of "I'm all right Jack" and disregard the needs of ordinary park users who. lets face it, didn't matter as they'd got their money and that was all that mattered to them.
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Permalink Reply by Sam R on
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I am sorry to hear about the attack of a fellow HOL'r. I took my teenage niece yesterday to her first ever big gig and was fearful of what you described above from happening BUT it was an isolated event and although the number of toilets could have been increased I still found them clean and with toilet paper at 8.30 ish. My niece coming from small town Witshire commented on how much more she enjoyed herself as the mixed crowd both 'old' and young was there to have a great time and she could't believe that people were friendly for such a big London gig. I welcome having such events in Harringay and long may they continue.
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Permalink Reply by HarringayBirder on
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Hugh
I have to say I was very tempted, cycling through the park on those sunny mornings last week, and seeing the great stage rise into the sky, to bag myself a ticket for the gig. In the event I didn't go but I knew a friend who did and he predicted the crowd would be somewhat disruptive even before the day of the event. He has been to many, many gigs over the years and knows what he is talking about.
As it happens he told me the Friday gig was a good night out, although he also told me that Dizzee Rascal had had to stop twice to ask people in the crowd to stop fighting.
In hindsight I wasn't surprised by what I saw on Friday or what I later read on Twitter on Sunday morning; or indeed by this article. I had travelled through King's Cross at about midday on Saturday and had seen guys stood outside O'Neills (who I later realised were almost certainly destined for the Park, judging by their apparel) supping pints. Later, coming through Highbury Barn I passed an endless stream of drinkers; one woman, who did not appear to someone who would normally shop at the cheaper end of the market, as it were, was (memorably) clutching a can of Special Brew.
Further down the hill I saw small but - for some reason somewhat intimidating - groups of men stood around the T-Bar and other pubs. Everywhere you looked people were carrying alcohol. It was only then I remembered there was a second Stone Roses gig that evening.
As I passed the park gates I noticed the bins were already overflowing and a steady flow of people were entering the park, most - again - carrying alcohol. Though I didn't see any disorder I did see a small group of high-spirited females huddled around a tree by the fence adjoining Seven Sisters' Road, one squatting down and apparently (I kept cycling) answering the call of nature. It was 6 pm.
As it seemed most people were still on their way INTO the park - and the tree ladies were clearly outside the ticket-only compound - it was quite clear many of the gig-goers (and I am making no moral judgment here0 were well-oiled long before the Stone Roses hit the stage.
So far as the lack of toilets is concerned, I am sure they were inadequate but I have also heard (more than once) there were too few bars inside. If that is right then surely it suggests that many of the people who were urinating into cups and tipping the contents on the ground had had a good bit to drink before they even arrived.
Legal, of course. But wise?
People seem to drink more nowadays and then often release the waste product wherever the need arises. I appreciate if you are a gig with tickets and so on you just can't walk out and find a loo. But you can't JUST say "too few toilets" without looking at the wider issues here. What about the men who (apparently) urinate by the chicken shop opposite Lion King on a regular basis? What about the man who was urinating through the fence of my children's school about 7 pm on Saturday evening? (I had a word; he was not contrite).
I know I sound mightily Puritanical. I can assure you I'm not. But I don't think all these problems are simply down to penny-pinching on the part of the organisers. Many may be. But many are not.
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I know I'm bringing up more than one issue. However I disagree I am being puritanical about any of them. Indeed what I have read in these replies (which I have only just seen as for some reason I didn't receive any emails) confirms my opinions.
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Permalink Reply by Abi on
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I have to take exception with your line of reasoning on the toilets - regardless of how much fans had or had not had to drink - there simply were not enough toilets. I had two drinks all night - and spent a good half hour queueing.
That being said, there was 'an atmosphere' that's for sure...I'm also fairly sure that one guy was trying to make my friends and me drink spiked Bacardi breezers for much of the gig (put it this way, he wasn't drinking them himself and seemed VERY keen to offer them to women), but fortunately we had our wits about us! I also got asked if I was 'starting something' by a charming young lady who'd just stepped into a photo I was taking - not the sort of thing I'm used to dealing with in lovely FP!
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Permalink Reply by AndrewAW1 on
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As someone who was actually there, there was certainly a significant lack of toilets compared to other gigs I've been to of a similar size. In particular they only seemed to have one small set of urinals rather than the large racks of them that many gigs and festivals have nowadays.
I was also surprised to read about what seemed to be numerous incidents of violence. Myself and around a dozen friends who were scattered throughout the venue hadn't seen anything. I heard later that there'd been some mobile phone thefts which had caused some of the trouble.
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The promoter and Haringey Council should definitely have laid on more facilities outside the cordoned off area, especially near the bridges and Woodstock Road. The open 'Pissoir' style I have often seen in and around the West End / Soho would have been useful here. Punters were paying a minimum of £ 60 per ticket I think they should have been serviced better.
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Indeed. I have never missed a band I wanted to see before due to queuing for the lavs...on this occasion I did. I wondered at one point if there were grounds for seeking a partial refund if you're obliged to spend so long queuing that you miss most of an entire set!
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We went to the gig (I am 8months pregnant) and found the crowd to be civil. Yes people had had a few (or more) drinks but there was a light atmosphere and one which I would expect from a Stone Roses Gig! I found fellow gig goers to be courtious and did not experience any pushing and everyone seemed to be there to enjoy the amosphere and music and have a beer or three.
I was therefore shocked to hear that there had been violence at the gig - maybe it was towards the front of the crowd but towards the back it seemd fine. I'm hoping it was just a few isolated incidents rather than something bigger.
The toilet issue was however terrible. My friends queued for over an hour to use the Loos and I would say this was pretty much standard for the whole gig. Once in the loos there was loo roll and they were clean but there were clearly not enough. I think this spoilt the afternoon for some of my friends. I was also worried about the state of the park after the gig... there was a river of wee running down the side of the hill... not great to play football on next week. The gig organisers really do need to answer to this.
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So, I suppose I have to agree that the music wasn't loud... until the end when they pumped up the volume. I live on Woodstock road and the park/concert was directly behind my house. We're often told by the noise monitors that as we have the trains running between us and the park we should be used to noise. Is that fair? As it happens I used my video recorder to record the sound and in one you can clearly see a train go by but you can't hear it. And that bass, my windows were vibrating with the beat, buzzing even.
Earlier in the evening I saw the concert goers making their way down the road, most were carrying drinks and many of them in pint glasses. The local pub was not only packed but the whole road outside was chock-a-block with people who were oblivious to anything attempting to drive past.
Then I heard the tale of the lack of toilets. One lady said that some people were peeing into bottles then lobbing them, open, across the crowd. Yuk.
I wonder too what has been trodden into the grass and soil? And they complain about dog poo. I'll never picnic in that area again.
No, I didn't like the disruption at all. I was stuck in the house with booming music and thumping bass and couldn't even go to the pub to get away from it.
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