Probably a top ten LBH spin entry

Replies to This Discussion

Permalink Reply by Alan Stanton on March 21, 2015 at 17:47

Thanks Philip.

Stephen, I don't know about "most of the 20th century". But in the 30+ years I've lived in Tottenham I think the description "suburban wilderness" is inaccurate. And provides no understanding of the area. Maybe the next time you're in London come and visit me and Zena and we'll have a proper conversation on this.

Meanwhile please let's discard the idea that the only options available are 2-storey terraced homes and towerblocks. Londoners have long been building perfectly feasible and sometimes beautiful alternatives.

A street of 4 storey townhouses offers double the floorspace. Some Georgian homes had 5 and 6 storeys - including garden flats.

Permalink Reply by StephenBln on March 21, 2015 at 18:35

Oh yes Alan, Wilderness. Tottenham was serverely knocked about in the 1950s & 1960s by well intentioned but misguided council interference in the housing market. More damage was inflicted in that period than in WW2 and it brought the destruction of many communities, especially in South Tottenham, where hundreds of victorian and edwardian houses, no different to those remaining today, were demolished

As for the jibe of you living there for 30 years. I lived 21 years in Tottenham too and went to school there. Before you, but that certainly doesn't mean that I'm completely out of touch. My last visit was in 2014.  On my timescale, most of those who live there now, are like you, mostly 'newcomers'. Therefore I see no problem with Tottenham welcoming new residents by doing it's share towards eradicating London's housing problem. In fact it's heartening to think, that it's OK to live in N15 & N17 again.

The problem with most 1960s tower blocks was that they were of cheap construction and their original residents, mostly didn't want to live in them - were moved in, after their homes were compulsory purchased and demolished. After that, these unloved buildings became collection areas for problem families. That is not the case with the modern versions, where people want to live in them. I also notice that currently residents of the 1960s towers at White Hart Lane are also campaigning to remain in theirs.

Yes, retro georgian squares look good, but I don't really think the Lea Valley is going to be a new North Bloomsbury. Anyway, there's far too much nostalga about generally in the U.K. already. i.e. Old fashioned styled street lighting or litter bins everywhere. It's time to look forward, not back. Thank goodness, there are those in fact doing just that.

Lastly, a quick comparison in 2014 of the Ferry Lane estate with it's shoebox housing and Hale Village, immediately influenced my thoughts on this subject.

Permalink Reply by pamish on March 21, 2015 at 19:30

The reason (main reason) that Tottenham-ites are shouting at the interwebs, is that none of the towers planned so far will do anything for anyone in housing need - they are nearly all private-sale, with a sprinkling of so-called 'affordable' ie 80% of market rent.  No social housing, not even shared ownership. So no-one on less than about £150,000pa will be able to afford them, or where they are trading up from already owning.

Permalink Reply by Alan Stanton on March 21, 2015 at 19:33

No "gibe" whatever intended, Stephen. I respect the fact that you grew up here, and know you regularly visit. Nor am I underestimating your knowledge of the area before the Council built the flats you dislike.

Nor do I discount your experience of Germany and what we might learn from its very different attitude to renting and flat-dwelling.

What I meant is that my experience of Tottenham and other parts of London gives me a different 'take' on what's now happening here. And on why it's happening. And because  I respect your experience, I suggested making time to talk about that in person, rather than swap comments online.

BTW I'm not advocating pastiche Georgian as the solution. Just  pointing out that there are a range of possible modern options which go higher than the two storey homes with gardens you criticise.

Incidentally, it's very unlikely - if the insane London housing market prices continue - that the new towerblocks will meet the housing needs of Tottenham families. In my view they are not intended for that purpose. The real aim is this.

Foreign investors using London property as "Safe Deposit boxes" is another of the factors at work.

Permalink Reply by Martin Ball on March 20, 2015 at 1:55

How's about the reason for going to Cannes?

'this means attending events like MIPIM so as to attract investment that we can harness for the benefit of the local community.'

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Permalink Reply by Alan Stanton on March 20, 2015 at 2:18

The spinning is now an incredible blur.

Reminds me of the boy who cried "wolf!" of course.   And: "Matilda who told such dreadful lies, It made one gasp and stretch one's Eyes".

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Permalink Reply by Chris Setz on March 20, 2015 at 9:06

Maybe they spin because they're bored with the lack of effective opposition? See how outrageous they can be before somebody notices?  Maybe they rate a good spin as one that gets a mention on HoL :)

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Permalink Reply by John D on March 20, 2015 at 9:26

There would be effective opposition if people would vote for them

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Permalink Reply by Alan Stanton on March 20, 2015 at 12:09

I suspect, John, that we are currently at a sort of local 'extra-parliamentary' stage.  Opposition to our Tory-pollcy council is coming from different quarters. But not yet coalescing into an effective political opposition.

Partly this is due to the fact that people within the hollow shells of the main parties are still playing diversionary yah-boo, Punch 'n' Judy games.

A further problem is that "living within the truth"  carries a price. For example, life can be made unpleasant for people such as whistle-blowers and trade union activists. Finding out and exposing the spin, half truths and lies, requires time and hard work.  While our faux-Labour Council has at its disposal a publicly funded propaganda machine.  And it's never short of money to spend on lawyers.

Do the spinners believe their own propaganda?  I suspect many of them can no longer tell the difference. Especially if they spend a lot of time in an "echo chamber" of the like-minded.  Speaking with and listening to people and sources of information in agreement with their own views.

Of course some of them realise that much of what they are required to say and support is nonsense. Even so, they remain - perhaps with reluctance and even some shame - obedient flunkeys. Because that's how they keep their positions and avoid conflict with the powers-that-be.

"Individuals need not believe all these mystifications, but they must behave as though they did, or they must at least tolerate them in silence, or get along well with those who work with them. For this reason, however, they must live within a lie."

But we also know that in our society "living within the truth" remains a real option.

"Under the orderly surface of the life of lies, therefore, there slumbers the hidden sphere of life in its real aims, of its hidden openness to truth."

(Quotations in italics from Vaclav Havel : The Power of the Powerless)

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Permalink Reply by Chris Setz on March 20, 2015 at 15:20

Pamish, could you kindly help me through the issues here as I'm trying to stop the Council ruining the centre of Crouch End - so far they've blighted it for over a decade, leaving the huge campus empty and rotting, but now they've decided to dispose of it, so anything could happen.

What madness lets the property company (Grainger) make, say, £25m profit at our expense?  I've met a lot of Councillors, they're not stupid, how come they're letting this horribly profitable deal go through? Why can't they hire Grainger to build the 22 storey tower, rent it out themselves and plough all the profit back into the public purse?

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Permalink Reply by pamish on March 20, 2015 at 17:02

Who knows what lovely bonding experiences take place on the long journey from Wood Green to Cannes?  And on the even longer journey from Cannes to Wood Green?

Councillors are not stupid, agreed.  But they are amateurs in the game of playing with big money and establishment power.

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Permalink Reply by Chris Setz on March 20, 2015 at 17:04

So if it's fundamentally a question of Cllrs not being up to the job, we're screwed, aren't we?  The Cllr system isn't going to change any time soon, whatever party rules.

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