Harringay, Haringey - So Good they Spelt it Twice!
Poor conversion - floorboards and freeholders
My downstairs neighbour and I are having problems with the floor 'boards' in the poorly converted house we live in - they're incredibly noisy. I say 'boards' because they're essentially chipboard on top of beams and insulation - and little else. I know this from having redone my bathroom.
My neighbour and I are both leaseholders.
Is there any responsibility on the freeholder to do anything about what have become unbearable living conditions, particularly for my neighbour?
As I say, the house was poorly converted 30-odd years ago. But all three leaseholders are being charged outrageous buildings insurance fees each year via the freeholder's agents.
Although my girlfriend and I creep around our flat to avoid unnecessary floorboard creaking, the noise is still causing serious ongoing disturbance to my downstairs neighbour. I've heard it myself, and it's very annoying. It's like torture for her.
The floorboards seem to have become worse/noisier recently - I've no idea why given the house was converted in 1985! It's annoying for us to hear too - and inconvenient (and just about impossible) to avoid.
Short of my neighbour sound-proofing her ceiling, or me moving out and completely re-flooring the whole flat, we're not sure what we can do about it. Extra insulation and thicker carpets would seem to be the equivalent of putting a plaster over an axe wound.
If the freeholder was legally responsible for ensuring basic living conditions were upheld, we might have a starting point for resolving this problem somehow. In the past I've struggled to get anywhere near the freeholder to discuss anything - there are a line of agents separating us.
Any advice much appreciated.
Thanks,
Rich H
Tags for Forum Posts: buildings insurance, conversion, floorboards, freeholder, leaseholders, neighbours, noise, noisy neighbours
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by John McMullan on
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1. Buy the freehold.
2. They'll have to lower the ceiling a couple of inches and install baffles, carpets don't cut it.
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Permalink Reply by Rich H on
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Thanks John.
In terms of buying the freehold, taking responsibility for the state of the 3 poorly converted flats doesn't sound particularly appealing! But I appreciate it would put matters back in my (our) hands.
Unfortunately none of us are flash with cash, and some of us don't get on, so 'going into business' together would be a non-starter.
In terms of lowering the ceiling, I fear even this wouldn't help much. The noises are definitely of the 'creaking' variety, rather than footsteps.
I'll check the lease just in case the freeholder is obliged to do anything regarding the instability of the flooring (thanks Michael and Rob!)
Thanks again.
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Permalink Reply by Rob B on
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No probs. Although remember that 2 of the 3 flats could normally buy the freehold alone and you could just cut out the leaseholder you don’t get on with...
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Cheers Rob. It's not necessarily me that doesn't get on with my neighbours. It's a complicated situation and no mistake! Either way I don't think we'd be able to pool the requisite funds even if we were able to 'ignore our differences'!
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Second this. Borrow.
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Permalink Reply by Michael Anderson on
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Until the building regulations changed in the 90s there was little or no requirement to consider noise insulation in conversions (or new builds even). It’s one of the reasons so many people in converted houses have to put up with the nuisance of even everyday noise. Newer regulations are more explicit about noise insulation requirements but they are not retrospective.
On the issue of the flooring itself becoming more and more unstable, it would be good to check the conditions of your lease and the freeholders obligations.
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You will have to read your lease(s) to find out who is responsible for the "boards". If you, then you are rather unfortunately may well be in breach of your lease for failing to keep your flat in repair (despite the fact that it was not you who installed the boards in the first place). If the freeholder is responsible they should undertake the repair works… but unfortunately again for you will no doubt be able to re-charge those costs back to you through your service charge (plus you will have to hassle them into actually doing something).
John is quite right – buying your freehold is the best option (especially as the freeholder is an unresponsive one) however that is a complicated and time consuming process (believe me I know – I'm a solicitor who specialises in this area, so I do these every day!). All other things being equal if there are 3 flats you will need at least 2 to participate.
If all the leases are over 80 years in length and there are no onerous ground rent provisions within the lease, and no freeholder retained land that they could develop, then the premium for buying the freehold could be relatively modest (maybe around the £10-£15k mark, plus costs). If any of the leases are under 80 years then it could be significantly more. If any of the leases are approaching 80 years within the next couple of years, you should consider acting quickly before they get under that date, as the price will dramatically increase.
Buying the freehold will just be the first step, however, as you will then have to fix all the issues once you (and your fellow leaseholders) are freeholders so I would recommend if you are serious about doing that you have a big meeting for all the leaseholders and try to agree as much as possible in advance about how you would approach fixing the issues (and who would pay for them) should you successfully obtain the freehold.
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Permalink Reply by pamish on
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If you can, get together with your neighbours and buy the freehold. The longer it has to run, the cheaper it should be. You have the right to buy the freehold, though the freeholders will try to charge stupid amounts of ££, this can be taken to a tribunal for adjudication. The kludged conversion job should help bring down the price. That way you cut out all those middle agents and can sort out insurance and repairs between you. I got very useful (free) advice when I bought my flat, from https://www.lease-advice.org/
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Tris and John D... I think you might be on to something.
Plans to be discussed over the weekend... (some joke about a 'board' meeting)
Thanks for comments everyone. Really useful.
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