Harringay, Haringey - So Good they Spelt it Twice!
Penalty Charge Notice (Green Lanes/Warham Road junction)
Hello .....wondering if anyone can help
At this junction traffic can only turn left or continue straight onto Warham Road.
On Monday December 14th there was a diverted traffic arrow sign at the bottom of Warham Road instructing drivers at the lights on Salisbury Road to take a right turn onto Green Lanes.
On this day I was intending to continue straight up Warham Road, however I followed the diversion sign. Two weeks later I received a PCN. Now I’ve had my initial challenge rejected.
Did this happen to anyone else and have you by any chance got a photo of the sign. Without a photo of the sign I think I might as well pay the fine as it’s my word against the Council’s.
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by John D on
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It's worth contesting it with the Parking Adjudication service. It seems that the majority of decisions come down against the council.
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Permalink Reply by Michael Anderson on
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Definately worth contesting as John says. I Ilive at the top of Warham and there have been on and off roadworks going on at the junction with Wightman for a couple of months (there are temporary traffic lights there at the moment). Haven't got the dates unfortunately.
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Permalink Reply by Gordon T on
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Sorry I don't follow your statement. You say
there was a diverted traffic arrow sign at the bottom of Warham Road instructing drivers at the lights on Salisbury Road to take a right turn onto Green Lanes. I was intending to continue straight up Warham Road, however I followed the diversion sign.
The junction of Warham Road and Green Lanes is not controlled by the lights at Salisbury Road. And if you've reached the bottom of Warham Road [i.e. the junction with Green Lanes] how could you continue straight up Warham Road? As far as I know, the only prohibited turn in that area of Harringay is the right turn from Warham Road onto Green Lanes.
Not unsympathetic, just puzzled.
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He's not talking about Hewitt. There are traffic lights at the Warham junction and what he says makes perfect sense.
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Duh. Sorry Nick and Michael - and Amir, don't have a photo. So used to complaints about the Hewitt Rd no-right-turn. Blame it on an early start for Flying Scotsman. Yes I see now!
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Make sure you post pictures of her if you got any Gordon. I was intending to go for a look and chickened out when I opened the front door to an icy blast.
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I have no stills sorry, video instead, but Eugene and others have posted good pics on the main forum and in the Steam Watchers group.
And it is already all over the media - there were three helicopters in sight at Harringay, and BBC News is running a 'Live Updates' stream here (for now).
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Think you might have got the roads a bit mixed up Gordon. Traffic on Salisbury is controlled by lights at the junction. It can either go straight up Warham or turn left onto Green Lanes. I'm siting in my living room in Warham at this moment watching the traffic merrily zoom up to Wightman only to end up in a traffic jam caused by the temporary lights. Plenty of horn beeping going on!
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Permalink Reply by Justin Guest on
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Michael is right there have been on and off traffic works on Wightman Road that have meant the Warham/Whightman junction has been blocked. So your diversion sign makes sense.
Two things spring to mind. They are digging now on Whightman. Go see them and get the details of the works manager and see if he/she can support your defence. Second. You are likely to have got a ticket as a result of the CCTV camera on GL by this junction. So, ask for the images used to make the case against you. You will likely see the sign in them. Also. If there are a rash of PCNs issued for the same offence then there is a good indicator you and many others were following instructions to divert in good faith. Good luck.
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It seems odd that they don't acknowledge that roadworks were in operation at the time when they publish details of roadworks online at https://haringey.roadworks.org/
Maybe that site isnt directly run by the Council but perhaps if you contacted them they would be able to confirm that roadworks were indeed in operation on that day.
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It's run by a company called Elgin and local authorities and statutory undertakers sign up to it. Damn useful if they input the data onto it. Thanks for the link.
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Permalink Reply by Amir on
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Thanks for all of your replies. I meant to start this feed a while ago. I have already looked at the CCTV. When I first viewed it it was hard to pick up the sign as it was dark and the sign is not facing the camera (the camera faces north up GL and the sign was facing Salisbury Road). However, I looked at the video again yesterday and now notice that the sign is just about visible when headlights briefly glance on it although I’m not convinced this is strong enough evidence.
The CCTV does show a second sign further along Green Lanes, diverting traffic left up Seymour. This sign faces the camera, and when the operator zooms in on my no. plate the diversion sign is very clear. The brief CCTV clip also does show one other car following the diversion as I did.
Antoinette, I had tried that website but is doesn't let you look at dates in the past. Haringey's highways department are quite helpful however they apparently don't keep a record of such signs (there are so many signs around I don't blame them). They looked at the CCTV and acknowledged the second being there but were not certain about the initial sign that I followed.
I challenged the ticket but it failed. I think this is normal. The Council’s response was so inept I didn't want to pursue it further so paid the fine. I've got annoyed about it again and made a FOI request (probably not right procedure to go about this but the council now has my £65 so they can put it towards this request) to see how many notices were issued on this day compared to another random Monday. If I get a response from the request that supports my case I intend to write to the Council and hopefully get them to admit they were at fault. Deep breath.
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