Harringay, Haringey - So Good they Spelt it Twice!
No More Compulsory Bus Stops
Occasionally over recent years I've mused to myself about how Londoners just don't seem to understand the difference between Compulsory and Request bus stops any more. Today I learned that it was my understanding that was at fault in this issue.
In times gone by a red bus stop with a white circle indicated a 'Request' stop. This meant you had to stick out your arm or ring the bell to stop the bus. White bus stop signs with a red circle indicated 'Compulsory' stops. This meant that the bus would always stop irrespective of whether a passenger requested it. I assumed this still held true.
Travelling home today, my bus failed to stop at a compulsory stop. I asked the driver why he hadn't stopped at the compulsory stop. He told me that it was now accepted practice amongst drivers to stop only when requested to. I asked if it was TfL policy and was told that it was just practice and the only way to meet the demands of the timetable.
I Googled it just now and found the following from TfL to Richmond Council in response to an enquiry:
Following a stakeholder consultation conducted in 2007, we have implemented a change to bus stopping practices, removing the distinction between compulsory and request stops. It was found that most people using bus services in London do not distinguish between a request stop and a compulsory stop. The vast majority of passengers hail the bus if they wish to board and ring the bell to alight. We are gradually standardising stops so that they all use the compulsory flag (a red roundel on a white background). All stops in central London are now of this same design.
The change effectively means that the onus is on the driver to stop if someone wishes to get on or off, and drivers should only pass a stop if they are certain that no-one wishes to board or alight. We did not publicise the change as research indicated that very few passengers would be changing their normal practice of hailing and ringing the bell.
Strange decision not to publicise the change though.
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Ledal on
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Even more annoying is the W5 route which is supposed to be 'hail and ride'. Most of the drivers are good but an increasing number will not stop when waved at, drive on to the next alighting place and not wait while people struggle to catch up with them.
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I can't really see the issue with this. Pressing a bell or waving your arm is pretty easy compared to the traffic and environmental impact of a bus stopping at a stop for no reason.
Also, as a cyclist, it's far better for a bus to keep on going than for a bus to stop at a stop, you overtake it, bus didn't really need need to stop so is stuck behind you, it squeezes past just in time to pull up at the next stop, repeat throughout Camden Road, Seven Sisters Road, Green Lanes.
To be honest, I've been getting buses for 20-30 years and I assumed all stops were request stops. What's the point of a bus stopping somewhere where no-one is showing an interest in getting on or off the bus.
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Permalink Reply by Christopher Fowler on
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As a regular bus user in London over more than twenty years, it's been obvious that most drivers have always ignored the distinction between "compulsory" and "request" stops. The more important issue is the number of occasions when you are standing at a bus stop, you clearly stick out your arm, and bus just sails by, ignoring you. Or, the situation where you are on a bus, the bell has been rung, the lighted sign says "stopping", but the bus driver fails to open the exit doors. I've seen this happen very frequently, with people desperately ringing the bell and calling out to the driver to open the doors. Also, it is noticeable that when people are trying to get off, with a baby buggy, with luggage, or when moving slowly due to physical disability, the drivers close the doors before they can get off, and the process of calling out to the driver to open the doors starts. Finally, I have observed many occasions when drivers refuse to let people with prams (or, and this has happened to my wife and I on many occasions when we have been with my wife's mother in a wheelchair) the drivers refuse to implement the "wheelchair priority", or get people to move out of the allocated area to make room for baby buggies or wheelchairs; and on many occasions refuse to allow a second baby buggy on board when there is clearly room in the allocated area for it. I can assure readers that this is no joke when you are heaving a wheelchair around. There is a huge difference between what TFL rules say, and what their staff on the bus do.
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Permalink Reply by James R Grinter on
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Turns out, the 'wheelchair priority' is something that drivers can only ask passengers to accept. The driver has no real way to enforce it. Nor the folding of pushchairs if the bus is too busy.
(See the "Big Red Book", http://www.transportforall.org.uk/files/bigredbook.pdf - page 51, and others.)
I always assumed certain bus stops were compulsory because they were the ones around which the timetable was based, the others merely being intermediary stops. Perhaps they've realised that buses are always running late, these days.
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Permalink Reply by Jacqueline Osley on
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The W3 failed to stop for me recently in Ally Pally - I hadn't seen it coming round the corner opposite the garden centre so didn't stick my hand out. I cursed myself for being so slow, but surely the driver would have seen me at the bus stop and if the onus is on the driver to not pass a bus stop unless they are sure no-one wants to get on, then he was the one in the wrong
And the comment about cyclists preferring buses not to stop beggars belief!
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I'm not sure why it beggars belief. Going along Seven Sisters Road in rush hour for example if a 29 or whatever stops in front of you then you have to move out into the traffic flow and overtake which slows down the general traffic flow and the cyclist. If the bus is picking up or dropping off then it will probably not catch the cyclist in front before it stops at the next stop. If it's only stopped momentarily then it's stuck at the cyclist's pace until the next stop and most cyclists find it unpleasant to be cycling along with a bus directly behind them being held up.
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so what's the solution? Separate cycle lanes probably but since these don't exist as yet then cyclists (and I am one) just have to put up with buses stopping for a short time or longer one depending on passenger need
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