Harringay, Haringey - So Good they Spelt it Twice!
Harringay Neighbourhood Election Results in Detail
Below are the results for the wards which are either wholly or partly in Harringay.
Replies to This Discussion
-
Permalink Reply by Dolomite Police on
-
We were not offered PR in a referendum, we were offered Alternative Vote. You seem to be offering 'alternative facts'.
Would you say the FPTP has given us a British government not full of 'careerist professional politicians'?
The French system is the best for keeping out extremists in my view. With the 2nd round, you need over 50% to win. PR has flaws, but you can form a majority government under FPTP with 35% of the vote sometimes. And referendums... well you pour scorn on another poster about a recent referendum result but if you know your history you will know that referendums have absolutely been the tool of extremists time and again.
Politics also differs in various countries. In some countries you can just make a new party of whatever persuasion and stand a chance of sweeping to power. See En Marche, Podemos, Cinque Stelle and many more. In other countries, you must infiltrate the status quo. Britain (and England in particular) is like that. See Momentum. You don't set up a radical left party, you seize control of Labour and move it far left - plenty of examples right here in our borough. America is the same. I don't particularly think Trump gave a damn which of the two major parties he stood for for President, but he knew he had no chance as an independent candidate. Don't think we are protected from risks just because we have FPTP.
-
Permalink Reply by 2eapisg6lxq2e on
-
Okay
1 when did someone standing as a Nazi or Neo Nazi get elected under first past the post
2 When have they failed to get one elected under PR ?
PR has been the ladder to power for the far right all over Europe , the BNP have represented us in Europe but never in Parliament. The road to hell is paved with good intentions.
-
-
of course its not that simple, the assertion that PR is superior because ' every vote counts' is not an argument its a slogan
Your lack of response re parliamentary seats not being taken by Nazis but they are all over PR Europe makes it clear you accept the fact that PR is Nazis electoral system of choice.
The lack of PR is one of the reasons that hold the Nazis back , no one is saying or asserting that it is all that holds them back but now you have been confronted by the argument that it is proved beyond question that Nazis do better under that electoral system than they do under FPTP are you saying that the danger that directly puts toward Jews for example is worth what ever gains you claim it brings ?
I am happy to explain why in specific small areas with tiny turnouts the BNP were able to gain council seats but I assumed it was obvious, need I explain ?
-
Permalink Reply by John McMullan on
-
The Irish have Single Transferable Vote and they don't elect Nazis.
-
-
what point are making John ?
1 that particular version is not as bad as the others ? or
2 your exception proves my rule ?
-
Permalink Reply by Michael Anderson on
-
I think you are mixing up cause and effect. The electoral success of facist and right wing populist parties is not because of any particular voting system. Various forms of proportional representation have existed in many countries for decades yet fascist and populist parties have not seen electoral success until fairly recently. For instance the Freedom Party of Austria has existed since 1956 but made little political impact until 1999.
-
-
I am making no such error Michael Anderson, I never suggested that PR was the only or even main reason for Fascist electoral success I just explained that when conditions are ripe for Fascist gains this was amplified by PR.
It is quite absurd when debating what voting system is better for the 'people' the supporters of a system attempt to argue that one system is not better for one form of politics than another.
In fact its funny how they explain how the Greens and Liberals would be so much better off under PR then state PR is neutral and independent as regards benefiting a particular brand in political thought.
The loudest voices in favour of PR are the Liberals and the Greens , strangely when talking in terms of 'cause and effect' Michael they are the two biggest beneficiaries of PR . Do you accept that PR is more beneficial to some political strains than others ?
If so we can debate whether this also applies to Nazis ( who represent us in the EU via PR but not in parliament via FPTP ) ?
-
-
PR more accurately reflects the political opinions of the voting population. And of course you are right that smaller and more extreme parties stand a better chance of being elected under it. The problem is that whatever voting system is in place those political views still exist.
Extreme right wing politics has never been defeated in the U.K. by simply devising where to put an X on a ballot paper. It has been tackled by ordinary people confronting and challenging it - from Cable Street via Ducketts Common to the movements of today. I think that the reason the far right has little political influence in the U.K. today is because people are willing to stand up to them and counter the lies they peddle when they try to garner support by turning people’s genuine anxiety and despair into hatred. When those lies go unchallenged you end up with a situation where you have BNP councillors and that has happened under our current system and can happen again.
A more democratic form of electoral representation always stands the chance of parties gaining power who hold views I utterly oppose. But vigilance, exposing lies and taking action is and has always been the way to both uphold democracy and prevent fascists gaining power in the UK.
-
-
Permalink Reply by JoeW on
-
1 Mussolini (elected by Acerbo Law, which is like FPTP on steroids)
2 Scottish Local Government (elected by STV)
Your argument appears to be based on the association fallacy, aka "reductio ad hitlerum". I'm guessing you're opposed to vegetarianism too?
-
Permalink Reply by K. E. Hubbard on
-
My original posting was to point out that the problem with Government locally & nationally was largely due to our voting system. As we have and are seeing such a system brings about a self-perpetuating ruling elite who may be strong enough initially to introduce needed reforms but over time become isolated & detached. They live in a world of their own becoming more & more self-serving & inward looking without effective opposition or if there is any it is as isolated as they are.
This seems to have happened on Haringey Council and this week in Central Government (in the self-proclaimed National Democracy Week!).
In a system of PR even those who one may dislike can have worthwhile comments to make. Even the process of shooting them down can produce positive counter-arguments.
I was present last year at a debate where there was a discussion about preferential lists for candidates etc. There was a long conversation amongst Labour/liberal/Green people about ways & means, priorities, committees etc. At which point the UKIP representative stood up and effectively told them to shut up. He pointed out that if they were still spending that amount of time discussing equality they weren’t actually practising it. Why not just get on with it & choose the best candidate on merit instead of doing it by formula.
This approach has its dangers and is probably not practicable but it does no harm to have someone remind people of the point of the exercise which often can get lost in all the politicking.
It really does not matter who they are, in fact it can be easier for those slightly outside the mainstream to do so.
Sometimes you need off the wall thinking to achieve things, even if all it does is provoke a reaction.
An effective administration needs as many points of view as possible to function properly.
- ‹ Previous
- 1
- 2
- 3
- 4
- Next ›
© 2024 Created by Hugh.
Powered by
