Harringay online

Harringay, Haringey - So Good they Spelt it Twice!

Residents, Residents Groups and Traders in the Green Lanes / Harringay Ladder area may not be aware of the handsome consultation document detailing the new Green Lanes proposals which has just been published on behalf of the Green Lanes Strategy Group.

This is available to download at:

Paper copies have been produced in limited quantity and are available at Stroud Green Library, Tao Sports and Cherie Hair Salon.

Views and comments are invited and welcomed and the closing date for these is 21 June 2013. 'If no major objections are received', works are planned to start in July/August 2013 and will last 9-12 months.

Comments should be emailed to: frontline.consultation@haringey.gov.uk
or posted to: Frontline Consultation, London Borough of Haringey, FREEPOST NAT 20390, PO Box 264, London N22 8BR

This is the one opportunity to have a close look at all the detail and to make constructive comments.

Tags for Forum Posts: glsg, green lanes corridor, green lanes plan, green lanes strategy, harringay green lanes town centre, harringay ladder, outer London und, pocket park, town centre improvements

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I notice that nobody outside of Hewit Road is in favour of this. They must all be stupid, innit.

One. Not counting Barbara's anonymous friends on Seymour.

Why are you in favour Alex? Do you think it won't be permanent and genuinely is a trial? It's being pushed through as part of the regeneration, it's not an interesting and carefully monitored trial...

I think I would be willing to wager a few pounds that you do not live on Beresford or Pemberton. 

If a member chooses to share personal info, that's up to them. We don't allow people to share others' info. Please respect that.

I am sorry you are cross Alex - but the point is that the residents of Hewit and Seymour do not need a traffic survey to tell you there is a problem. It might be interesting to experiment and see what effect this has - but if I lived on Beresford Road I would be very unhappy about this.

Why not experiment with something a bit more radical that does not just push the problem onto another road?

Hugh, as I understand it, the GLSG meetings are public. Though in the usual way, there may be a Part II for confidential items.

Part 1 of the minutes should also be public and published on the Council's website. I had a complaint about this - from someone not in Harringay ward - and when I checked saw this had not been done recently.  So I raised it earlier today with Haringey's Committee staff.

(Tottenham Hale ward councillor)

Good luck with that, I've been pestering about this too for quite some time. I've been assured that they are going to get onto the council website, it just seems to be taking a long long time to happen. I've been given copies of most of the GLSG minutes since 2003 up to earlier this year if anyone is interested, was going to put them up on the HoL wiki but held off as they're always about to appear on the council website. We really need the agenda's to get publicly published too and before the meetings happen so we actually have an opportunity to give some input.

It's not luck, Ant. If a body is technically a Council sub-committee then publishing its agendas and minutes is the law. It's also sound practice.

To be fair, it may be that this work is being done by volunteers. Who often have families, jobs, friends, and other interests. Having in the past been the writer/printer and main distributor of notices as well as minute-taker for various voluntary groups, I know how much time it takes. Usually with little thanks and few offers of help, But with criticism guaranteed when you make the inevitable mistakes. 

On the other hand, email, laptops and websites make the whole process far far easier than in the days of typewriters, stencils, and stuffing envelopes.

i get the feeling its something more than just a question of volunteer time, the agenda and minutes do exist and get distributed to GLSG members already, so its just getting them up on a website or publicly accessible . Try asking one of the GLSG members who do receive them already if they could give you a copy, they're not at all keen. Even with the old minutes i have managed to get hold of i was asked not to make them public.

If minutes of a Council body are properly Part II and confidential then you would respect that, Ant. But if they ask you to keep public minutes secret then they are acting unlawfully.

I'd advise anyone in that position to ask for confirmation of such a request in writing. It's the classic defence against being told to do something you know is wrong. "Sure. I'm happy to do that. But first please confirm what you said by signing this paper. Or sending me an email."

They know that you know, and they won't do it. Unless of course they're really stupid. (Sometimes they are.)

I've spent far too much time noting, typing-up and circulating agendas and minutes of meetings. I assure you that I was only too pleased when someone - anyone - gave the slightest indication of having read and thought about what was in them.

"Those minutes you wrote, Alan, were really clear. Punchy bullet points. Great. And I'm pleased you included those ideas A and B suggested. Really interesting. Please thank them and say we're looking into it."    Yess!

Part of the reason agendas and minutes are low priority is that they're often very very dull. After all, who rushes to open the latest set of minutes from some committee? But this sometimes leads to things deliberately hidden 'in full view' in wodges of dullness.

Former Cllr Ray Dodds told me about some contentious change that was provoking angry opposition. "Which idiot agreed this?" he demanded. "You did", he was told. And sure enough it was buried deep in some document he'd approved.

Sometimes people love secrets for their own sake. Or as part of keeping their personal power. Especially in those parts of Haringey where things are run on a Big Man/Woman model. ("I'm important. I call the shots round here. You keep scratching my back, maybe I'll see what I can do".)

Tell them that the German Democratic Republic is no more. They need to let go. The sky won't fall.

I spoke to my partner Cllr Alan Stanton on this, as he has got some things factually wrong.

I am one of the councillor members of the Green Lanes Strategy Group (GLSG). The agendas and minutes are not down to volunteers. The group was set up as an official Council sub-committee. It meets in Haringey Civic Centre and has support from a Council officer. The group itself explicitly confirmed that its agendas and minutes should be posted on the Council's website.

There is a GLSG page here: http://www.minutes.haringey.gov.uk/mgCommitteeDetails.aspx?ID=436 

I can't shed any light on why this has not happened. But I am working on it  to find out why and get thing changed.  

Zena Brabazon

Cllr, St. Ann's Ward

Chair, St. Ann's and Harringay Area Committee and Forum.

Please don't shoot your brains out Barbara. I can't speak for anyone else, but I love the plans for Green Lanes - I said so when I replied to the original consultation, and I said so when I went to the exhibition. The reason I'm being negative here is because this (the Hewit Rd issue) is the single issue about which I have never - as yet - had any opportunity to comment upon. So I'm commenting now. It doesn't mean I don't love trees, or the pocket park, or the plaza - I'm just expressing anxiety and concern about something that I worry will have a detrimental impact on other streets bar Hewit.



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