Harringay, Haringey - So Good they Spelt it Twice!
Green Lanes Area Transport Study - consultation
http://www.haringey.gov.uk/transport/green-lanes-area-transport-study
Tags for Forum Posts: consultation, harringay traffic study, traffic
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by JoeW on
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I don't doubt that you were inconvenienced Antoinette but I think you are exaggerating - I doubt your bus commute normally takes 15 minutes for example.
I certainly want to see public transport be as reliable as possible though, and there will need to be mitigating measures to offset any adverse effects of filtering Wightman. Remember there were no mitigating measures at all during the bridgeworks. Even a few mitigating measures can actually make a big difference to journey time reliability. Adding 10 seconds to the red phase of traffic lights can cause a 10 minute queue to build up - taking those 10 seconds away again will allow traffic to flow smoothly.
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Permalink Reply by Antoinette on
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There are those mythical "mitigating measures" again, that are going to miraculously make it all alright. I'm sorry I just don't buy it. Don't you wonder why those measures weren't put in place? Because they're not actually do-able would be my view.
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1. One great mitigating measure would be the knowledge to those in the 2500 vehicles (per published study) that blithely uses my street each day to my inconvenience that those days are done.
That sense of permanence wasn't instilled last time around--people saw it as just something to be endured for 6 months. So the fact that nothing will change this time if we go for the only meaningful solution is a good starting point for mitigation.
Furthermore, there are people with degrees civil engineering who are specialised in traffic works and, if the council were really determined to do something about this, such firms could be brought in as consultants and would advise on mitigating measures.
Mitigating measures are not mythical if there if volition. And as i said above, nothing like the knowledge that something which once took 15 minutes will now take 45 (per your anecdotes) to have a mitigating effect.
2. And altruism aside, what I don't understand is why anyone who owns on the ladder or WR would be against the filtering as it would certainly enhance the real estate value in the area. I expect WR would increase in value 20% overnight.
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Since that is obvious and pretty much meaningless, what are you actually saying: Maybe all streets on the ladder should be blocked except mine so it goes from 2500 vehicles per day to 10,000, because, after all, it's a city?
By that logic, why bother blocking or narrowing roads anywhere or otherwise dealing with traffic, because it's a city.
So what's your point John? Mine is pretty simple and straightforward, I don't like my residential road being used as a cut through for 2500 vehicles per day. There is a proposal to address this on the table and I am stating my views and why I have these views.
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The mitigating measures are not "mythical" Antoinette, there are plenty of them and all very real. All you need to do is think of one of the many reasons why traffic queues start to appear and then implement ways to remove or reduce them.
As for why the measures weren't put in place, one theory suggested to me is that the council deliberately didn't implement them, precisely because they want local residents to think the status quo is inevitable. Not sure I buy that myself - more likely the mitigations involve various amounts of time, money, consultations with TfL, appeasing the traders, political negotations, etc. etc. and the council couldn't justify expending that effort only to reverse it after six months.
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Suspending parking on Green Lanes, for an example, would have taken no more expense or time than the drafting of a Traffic Management Order to suspend parking bays and yet they chose not to. It wouldn't have required any further consultation. The consultation that took place already provided support for that happening and yet it didn't. Wake up and smell the coffee people.
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Knavel and JoeW, both of you have been called out and neither of you have offered up any actual policies/strategies that say what the 'mitigating measures' - streetworks - local ANPR charges - barriers - (any more?) could be.
Proposals please. That Haringey can afford and can implement in the real transport/planning/financial world. An absence of handwaving please.
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And who are you to "call me/us out"?
What makes you expert in matters of civil engineering that somehow gives your opinion more weight than mine ?
What is it that makes it so that your view is the point of reference and the burden always rests with me/us to carry an argument if it doesn't square with some view you propose/support?
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Gordon there is a link to the most obvious problems in my post above, I think the fixes are mostly self-explanatory e.g. bus stops are badly positioned relative to the Arena and Endymion junctions, so let's move them; u-turns are a common problem holding up traffic all along GL, so let's ban them; the traffic light phasing wasn't adjusted to the different flow patterns, so let's adjust it, etc., etc. Most of these measures were proposed during the transport study engagement and I think many have made it onto the shortlist for the next round of consultation. Traffic is very sensitive to apparently minor disruptions. A ten second wait for a car to reverse park into a space causes a twenty car queue at the previous traffic lights. Remove or reduce the causes of the disruptions and traffic will flow again.
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I've so far offered no view or opinion on what to do, Knavel, so your challenge is baseless.
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I'm not exaggerating - a 29 bus from Finsbury Park to Mattison Rd normally takes 15 minutes but during the bridge works 45 mins was perfectly normal. I have the fines from the school for late pick ups to prove it.
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