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Harringay, Haringey - So Good they Spelt it Twice!

Council officers recommend St Ann's and Bruce Grove LTNs get green light

Tags for Forum Posts: low traffic neighbourhoods, st anns ltn, traffic

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It was always going to happen!
Once they made it so difficult to say ‘No Please No!’ It was nailed on.

the thing I find difficult to take is that folk at the other end of my road have seemingly classed me as a rat runner for using my own road.

But Hayho! such is life. ‘little boxes, little boxes’ make sure you don’t stray out of yours. 

Oh!!

And please say a prayer for the poor people who live on the boundary roads.

I've just watched the relevant part of the meeting but not sure what your comment above refers to.

I predict we'll see some people stand on an anti-LTN platform and lose badly in the next elections.

Absolutely this. I’m not convinced a majority in this borough drive.

Previous stats have shown that about 40% of households have a car or van available.

Andrew,

I dont quite understand your point.  Do you mean existing councillors might lose seats in local elections next May, or do you mean people who challenge them over the LTNs will be heavily defeated?

it is certainly an interesting pre-election time to be making such controversial decisions!

I do support the concept of LTN, but in my area, when you look at the detailed proposals, they are quite bonkers and will cause traffic mayhem. I don’t think most people have taken this in at all.  I could think of better solutions, not just for my own benefit but for everyone in the ‘Cell’.  (I believe this is what they call the differently coloured sets of streets which have been closed off together).

I wrote to the lead Councillor, Mike Hakata, immediately I saw that the proposal before Councillors  was different to that presented in consultation meetings, and before Cabinet took their decision.  He didn’t even acknowledge me.

I am in the St Ann's LTN, and am one of the many households who have no access to a motor-car. I think that the LTN, which will reduce through-traffic and make our streets, almost all of which are residential, safer and more pleasant to use. I am sure there will be some "teething problems", and some elements of the plans may need to be adjusted or "tweaked". However, I am hoping that over time we will all become used to new arrangements, and it will improve life and air quality in the St Ann's area. It is entirely understandable that those who rely on using a motor-car may be worried about the impact, but let us all hope that in time we will see there are advantages for all of us.

Christopher — I don’t know where in St Ann’s you live, but in my 30+ years in the ward (also with no access to a car) I’ve seen very few vehicles pass my front door at any time of day except possibly in the early evening rush-hour; the streets are so quiet that the biggest threat to life and limb is learner-drivers practising three-point turns and reversing. In this whole process the council has published no stats to support the claim of universal rat-running across the area; the real problems are in three specific roads that could be controlled by far less intrusive measures.

I think it’s unrealistic to assume that this is really in any way a trial that might be altered or abandoned, whatever the outcome; the council has invested far too much political capital in its plans to ban traffic from side streets and claim money from City Hall to ever admit to getting it wrong, even if the boundary roads end up locked solid. Cllr Hakata dismissed at least one unfavourable outcome from an example LTN in Islington as “anecdotal” because it doesn’t support Haringey’s plans (my counter-observation about lack of traffic on St Ann’s roads was also deemed “anecdotal”, of course), so I can’t see much likelihood of any changes once the traffic has been “dispersed” to other, unspecified, areas — or perhaps boroughs.

If the traffic really is as low as you suggest in the zones then surely the impact on the boundary roads will be minimal, you can't have it both ways.

A lot of those St Ann's area roads are quiet, but do you think that would continue to be the case if you put measures in on those three specific roads or would the traffic try and get round those measures by diverting off into other streets?

The trial doesn't just roll over into a permanent plan. It's being done under an experimental traffic order which is time limited (18 months I think). It will require another vote to make it permanent and, if it's as disastrous as some like to predict, I can't imagine the councillors would be keen to go ahead with it given the impact on their electability.

I mean people who challenge them over the LTNs will be heavily defeated. I don't think there is the public appetite for the status quo that some believe there is. Add to that, the LTNs won't have actually been introduced (except maybe for the Bounds Green one which is on a faster timetable) so there's not going to be much tangible to rail against.

I think there will definitely be issues at the start. The problem will be if those issues continue or get worse. In the council meeting they did say that there was the option to quickly alter things during the trial if they can see they aren't working.

I know I've said it many times before but it is worth reiterating that this is a trial to find out what works and what doesn't work and fine tune things so that they work better.

I also emailed my local councillors about the LTN and didn't receive any acknowledgment which is poor. By all accounts they have had a lot of emails on the LTN but that isn't an excuse to just ignore them.

Andrew,

Just a quick point. when has Haringey Council ever moved quickly on anything?

The LTNs are here to stay, thats it. Everyone is just going to have to get over it and get into the Milton Keynes vibe.

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