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Harringay, Haringey - So Good they Spelt it Twice!

Council officers recommend St Ann's and Bruce Grove LTNs get green light

Tags for Forum Posts: low traffic neighbourhoods, st anns ltn, traffic

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Some information that seemed interesting : 

- Implementation Spring/Summer 2022, with some "complementary measures" (the cycle hangars, new crossings) and school streets front-running the full implementation in the Spring.

- The full-fat version of the St-Ann's LTN is the option recommended. No through route between West Green Road and St Anns road between Green Lanes and the A10* - ie. Woodlands park road, Black boy lane, Avenue road, Cornwall road (and other less busy roads) all become impassable to through traffic (bus gate on Black Boy Lane).

- Blue badge holders who live in the LTN or surrounding roads recommended to be exempt from camera controlled filter enforcement. This appears to apply just to the individual LTNs - ie, if I'm reading it right, if, say, you live in the St Ann's LTN, you get to go through the filters in that LTN but not, say, the west green one. 

*Some weirdness with Westerfield / Suffield roads that are right next to the A10 - can't quite figure out the plan there.

I attended a zoom workshop meeting last Thursday for disabled people and carers to talk about the proposed LTNs. It was clear from the meeting that the council representatives had very little idea about the complex and varied needs and had not spoken previously to the groups being represented at the workshop. The timing of this meeting was a bit strange too because the briefing report must have been written before this workshop so none of the feed back will have gone into the report. Hopefully it will be taken into account at the council meeting.

Although the briefing document I was sent is 1,600+ pages long, which is a hell of a lot to get through in one meeting!

I think there needs to be more exemptions worked into the proposals (if they're agreed to go forward), and indeed my workshop indicated this would be the case. Not every disabled person will have a blue badge and carers who visit homes won't necessarily have one either. And often carers will be visiting  people across the borough/boroughs so exemption for one LTN will not be much use.

Excellent points Julie, including about carers which doesn't seem to have been picked up in the Equalities Impact Assessment that will be before the Council at the meeting - I would hope that this gets addressed before the scheme goes live (bearing in mind the equality duty on the Council is a continuing one!) : https://www.minutes.haringey.gov.uk/documents/s128414/Appendix%20M%...  

Will be interesting to see whether the council follows the recommendations, decision to be made next Tuesday it seems. The fact that the funding isn't fully in place leaves me a little concerned it may end up getting watered down.

Hi there;

I had to search to find out what an LTN was.  It's a Low Traffic Neighbourhood.  Please don't take for granted that people know what an acronym means.  Thanks.

Regards,
James Cowling 

With the greatest of respect, James, it is hard to know how anyone, especially in London, could be unaware of what a "LTN" is. They are being introduced in Haringey, and in many other London boroughs. There is a lot of "kickback" from car-owners who imagine they have a god-given right to drive their polluting machines wherever and whenever they want. There is also genuine concern about those who have a disability and need to travel by car/taxi. This has been widely covered in the national and local press, in social media forums, and here on Harringay Online. It is always a good thing for a resident of an area to keep her/his ear to the ground, and try to stay abreast of developments in the area.

Everybody hears something for the first time at some time

Yes, you are right. I was being a bit harsh. Please forgive any offence.

I find your comments very offensive. Just like cyclists and so forth have a given right to cycle so do car drivers. As far as not knowing what LTN is , not everyone can access or understand computers and so forth. And finally maybe you should have been at the LTN zoom meeting for disabled residence to hear how badly these changes will effect their life. disabled people also have a right to to be able to move around, they have a right to have a what normal life they can. No one disputes that pollution needs to be addressed but if you think moving traffic elsewhere will solve this, think again. Wind and air will not stop pollution being carried over to an LTN

I have no idea why you found my comments offensive, directed as they were not to you but to someone who seemed unknowing of the term LTN. Of course, car drivers have a right to use the roads, but not an unfettered right. They must follow the national and local rules covering driving. They must be aware that they are driving a ton of metal around, with all the chances of injuring pedestrians or cyclists that implies. Never did I suggest that disabled people should not have special dispensations with regard to LTNs. I certainly did not and do not now dispute the rights of all those with disabilities to have as normal a life as possible. As far as pollution in cities is concerned, you are entirely wrong. Reducing traffic in a street reduces the pollution there. Reducing traffic in the St Ann's LTN reduces pollution in the whole of St Ann's. As for "moving traffic elsewhere", that is not what happens. Many studies of traffic congestion in urban areas show that when traffic is restricted, or banned, in one area, whilst some of it is moved to another route, a significant amount of it disappears. That is, the journeys that would have been made do not happen. Or, more likely, the former car drivers choose to walk, cycle, or use public transport. You are seriously over-estimating the distance that normal air movements transfer pollution from one area to another. I'm sorry if you are unable to access a computer (in which case, how did you place a comment on the Harringay Online site?) or understand them (since most children from the age of 6 or 7 can use computers, I find it strange that there can be many grown adults who cannot operate basic PCs). I was not at the zoom meeting to which you allude, as I rather dislike Zoom meetings. I am sorry if you have a disability, or care for someone who does, but in fact LTNs will make life much easier for those with disabilities, at least as regards moving around by car/taxi. There is a huge amount of misinformation being used by petrolheads to alarm those with disabilities over LTNs.

Completely untrue. Stationary or slow moving traffic causes more pollution. Just look at the bike lane by the hill in Wood Green. It has caused massive traffic queues and the smell is dreadful. I don’t accept your studies, provide me with this evidence. Cyclist have caused death, look at the case in Tower Hamlets last year year as an example. As far as disabled people, it will not make life easier. During the meeting disabled groups stated carers refused to attend patients as it increased their journeys. As far as cabs/ taxis if they have to go a long way round they will charge extra for this. 
lf you read the full consultation results and take into account the zoom meetings too , the majority of people provided a negative response to the proposed LTN. All agree we need to look at cutting pollution but this is not the way.

And finally not everyone can use a computer.Most of my immediate neighbours are either elderly or English is not their first language so yes your comment that you don’t accept that anyone could not use a computer so should know what an LTN is , is offensive to me.

Well, you are very argumentative and more than a little angry, aren't you? May I suggest you have a cup of tea, sit quietly for a while, and calm down before any further participation in this discussion. You can accept the studies or not, just as you can accept or not that the force of gravity exists, but the reality is that traffic congestion studies show exactly what I stated. The majority of people living in St Ann's, around 60%, have no access to a motor-car, so are not affected negatively by the LTN. Their lives will improve.                                                                                 As for using computers, there may well be some elderly people who find them difficult. However, a number of free training courses are available to help people become computer literate. I'm not sure a person's first language represents a barrier. How else explain that people who speak many different languages are able to be proficient in the use of computers? Also, I made no attempt to link knowledge of what an LTN is with the ability to use a computer. Information about such things is spread in a variety of ways, not only online, but also through newspapers, magazines, the radio, TV and multiple other sources. You don't have to be able to use a computer to know what an LTN is; you just need to wake up and pay attention. You do really seem bent and determined to take maximum offence at everything, so I am not sure that attempting to reply to you in a rational manner is going to do any good.

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