Harringay, Haringey - So Good they Spelt it Twice!
Caught red-handed
Glancing out of my window after lunch, I notice a chap sauntering past my house in a manner than can only be described as nonchalant. Craning my neck, I watch as he stops and calmly props an old window, from a house further down the road, outside my house before strolling off.
Having processed that I have *finally* caught one of these ruddy fly tippers in action, I go to the door and watch where he goes. Before I know what is happening, words are coming out of my mouth, rather angry ones...
"Why have you left that outside my house?" I bellow down the road (real classy like)
Inaudible response.
"I said, why have you left that outside my house?"
"It's ok the council will take it" is the reply.
I see red.
"Damn right they will, but only because I have to report it and I'll be reporting YOU for dumping it."
Man's friend seeing the game is up, comes back, mumbles an apology, and retrieves his fly tipping. Out of the corner of my eye, I see curtains twitching across the road. One or two passersby walk a little faster. This middle-aged lady is KICKING off.
Meanwhile, as it's the school holidays, I have my two kids cheering me on. As I stand, arms-crossed, watching Tweedledum and Tweedledee faffing around their white van, my daughter says in tones usually reserved for particularly good moments in Minecraft, "WOW MUM, you're TOUGH. Really TOUGH."
Well, of course, I'm not 'tough'. Just not going to stand for it.
However, as those of you who have read my rubbish-themed diatribes and musings over the years will know, I'm always interested in the WHY. Out of the mouth of Tweedledum was the answer we know is in the head of every dumper, litter bug and dog shit abandoner.
It's ok... the council will take it.
This man, and countless like him convince themselves, even though I KNOW they know what they do is socially wrong and illegal, that it's ok -no harm done, someone (the amorphous mass that is THE COUNCIL) will clear it up.
How do we convince people it's not OK? Fines don't cut it, enforcement is expensive and underfunded and prosecution is time-consuming. How do we stop people convincing themselves that their little bit of environmental crime is excusable?
Because I'm not going to be (un) lucky enough to catch them fly tippers red-handed every day.
Tags for Forum Posts: fly tipping
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by LSquared on
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Yes Michael they should, but they don't. And the rest of us taxpayers live with the consequences. What this taxpayer wants is clean streets, and I want my council to be realistic and pragmatic enough to deliver that, either through rigorous enforcement or by doing stuff they "shouldn't" have to in the interests of the majority who do play by the rules.
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Permalink Reply by Liz on
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The gentleman dumping was a builder. He should have the correct mechanisms in place to dispose of his waste. If not, he shouldn't be getting work. If he is irresponsible that it is up to the person employing him to enforce this or find another builder.
Oh and for the second time in an evening (some sort of record) I agree with Phil. Waste disposal is costly. Disposal of waste from household renovation isn't something that should be subsidised out of council tax. It is above and beyond 'normal waste' i.e. household rubbish.
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Specialist round, old chap. Have spent years pondering the mysteries of the fly tipper, the litter bug and the absence of the dog poo fairy. Too many years, come to think of it.
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"Should?" - what, is there some natural rule about what council tax is for?
Personally I thought it was to provide the local services people want and vote for. If we decide clean streets are more valuable to us than the ideological purity of our waste why should we not ask the council to use our tax to provide that?
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Permalink Reply by Alan Stanton on
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Some of the purposes it's spent on are must not should. In other words statutory.
But of course, you're right and there's some room to manoeuvre. Which is why some cities use a degree of Participatory Budgeting. Naturally, in the past when this was a topical buzz-phrase, Haringey claimed to be doing it.
But I advise extreme scepticism. In other words, don't believe a word of this unless you see the evidence with your own eyes.
Having said which, in most cases, in any one year budgetary decisions are probably a zero sum game. Spending more on A means a cut to maybe B and C.
By the way, recycling is not just "ideological purity". It's hard cash. Because of the way national rules charge for landfill/incineration and recycling.
(Tottenham Hale ward councillor)
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Ideologically pure as in "Disposal of waste from household renovation isn't something that should be subsidised out of council tax"
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Thanks for the clarification. I think maybe we agree.
It's sometimes called "the freeloader problem". Including people who think skips in the street are fair game for leaving bags of household waste and any other crud they can't be bothered to take down to the Reuse & Recycling Centre. Or phone Veolia to request a free collection.
I called it Haringey's Third System. (The first two are: collection from homes; and "bring sites", like recycling centres. )
"No one will be watching us, why don't we do it in the road?"
(Tottenham Hale ward councillor)
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Permalink Reply by David Thomas on
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Phew! on a more mundane note a window ( shan't automatically assume it to be the same one although the timing is about right!) appeared in Umfreville, propped against the wall of the river bridge.still there the next day ' tho by then someone had smashed the glass thus compounding the problem.
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What time did you report it to Haringey or Veolia, David? Via the website, or the phone app? How long was the delay before they finally collected it?
Did you stress the extra urgency because of the glass? I find this usually works well. Especially if it's propped near somewhere where small children or animals may be around. Obviously, if you're really worried about a potential danger it's sensible to move the frame somewhere safer.
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You're quite right Alan, unfortunately I was on my way unto Bolton - should have dealt with it first time round.
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I've often been in a similar position. I don't like mobile phones and very rarely carry one. Though I ought to, so reporting dumping etc doesn't wait till I get home. Luckily I was able to borrow a mobile to report this and it was quickly cleared.
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Permalink Reply by Madeline on
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My upstairs neighbour had a new fridge/freezer delivered by Currys. Out came the old one. She told them "Just leave it on the pavement." which they did.
I rang Currys when I discovered this (played back CCTV footage) and threatened that I had them on CCTV illegally dumping this item on the pavement. They told me that she, (upstairs) had told them to do that. So if a householder tells you to break the law, it's OK? After much discussion they did come back but wanted to put it in the front yard. I wouldn't allow that and insisted that they took it away, which they did.
The neighbours reasoning was that if she didn't do things like this then there wouldn't be a job for the workmen so less people would be employed.
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