Harringay, Haringey - So Good they Spelt it Twice!
A Tottenham boy blogs about the importance of a place's name
See this post on the Journeyman's Blog
Tags for Forum Posts: harringay name
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by John D on
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I noticed today that one of the two signs facing each other at the Turnpike Lane end of the Passage - saying " Harringay Passage " and " Haringey Passage" respectively - has been removed.
Unfortunately it's the " Harringay " that has gone. It may have been a souvenir hunter rather than the Council, as the screwholes have not been plugged.
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Permalink Reply by StephenBln on
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John, Haringey is the historically correct version.
Here was Hornsey territory and in Hornsey, 'Harringay' never existed.. That was was seen as a Tottenham invention.. :o)) .. (Harringay Road)
Although that said, why was there a Harringay, later Harringay West station.. also on Hornsey territory.. ?
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Permalink Reply by Hugh on
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Actually, that's incorrect Stephen. Harringay, Haringey and Hornsey are all historically correct forms, derived from the same root. And, Harringay is absolutely not a Tottenham invention. Permit me to quote from my Wikipedia article:
In 1371 the variant, Haryngeay, was recorded. Sixteen years later Haringey appeared for the first time. Of the three present-day forms, this is therefore the oldest. Haryngay appeared in 1393 and finally in 1569 Harringay was first used.
The variant that finally became Hornsey (the London district) first developed the addition of an 's' in the middle of the word with the use of Harnsey, recorded in 1392. Hornsey, in its modern form, didn’t appear until 1646. Right up until the close of the eighteenth century, there is no doubt that all variants of the name referred to the same area, around present-day Harringay and Hornsey. However from the late Tudor period on, the Hornsey version took precedence in common usage. The Harringay form survived in use more as a legal entity and in the manor records for the Manor of Harringay.
The building of a large mansion, Harringay House, in 1792, at the top of the hill in between the present-day Hewitt and Allison Roads, saw the divergence of meaning of the hitherto interchangeable names. From this time on, Hornsey was used to refer to the present day London district and subsequently the parish and Middlesex borough. Harringay came to mean the house, its surrounding park and finally the present-day London district. It also continued as the common name used in manorial records.
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Only wanted to see if you were awake.. :o)
But I think you might have misunderstood what I meant ..
Haringey Passage was known as such since the late 19th Century - long before the LBHgy was even thought about..
That's what I meant about historically correct and Harringay Passage is incorrect usuage. I think a local authority can't just change a name at will like this and must go through the proper procedures. Did it? I bet it didn't..
And BTW as we're on Tottenham here and you mentioned the Harringay wiki . I notice Tottenham first gets a mention in section 11.
When I read Harringay is a residential area of North London, close to Crouch End, in the London Borough of Haringey, United Kingdom. I couldn't help thinking, well it's nearer Tottenham..
But I suppose that's not what an outsider is supposed to think..
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Awake? Of course.
You're right about the passage...... in a sense.
The signs that Hornsey Borough put up on the passage did indeed use the Haringey spelling. The authority also tried to enforce use of that spelling for the district. However, in the face of strong and sustained objection from the Harringay Ratepayers' Association they relented and the area officially returned to Harringay. I guess council stubbornness means that the signs were never corrected.
[As for where Tottenham first gets a mention in the Wikipedia article, I'm not sure what you're talking about - or why it matters. In the main history article to which I referred, Hornsey & Tottenham are both mentioned for the first time together - apart that is from references re the Etymology, in which Tottenham has no place.]
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Permalink Reply by Michael Anderson on
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Back to the good old 1935 edition of Kelly's Directory on this one - they spell it Haringey Passage
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Haringey Council website calls it " Harringay Passage " :)
Now, why is Tottenham Lane in Hornsey ? :)
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Permalink Reply by maggie on
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Tottenham Lane in Hornsey.
Is it because its the lane going from Hornsey towards Tottenham??? -
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Oookee, so we're quite quickly into a branch of the Ay-ey debate? Does that support the notion that the name of a place does have an importance for the people who live there?
PS: The Ay-ey debate takes its name from the Aye-aye, a creature of the Madagascan forest which, as Wikipedia tells us "combines rodent-like teeth with a long, thin middle finger"
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Permalink Reply by Mr Growbag on
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Not done a survey of who's posted on this topic throughout the site's history but I reckon the ongoing debate only supports the notion that between 10-20 HOL members have an opinion on the Haringey/Harringay distinction. I can't see the barricades going up just yet...
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Eeears, I don't think it's a thing that keeps people awake at night. But, I think that also says something about the extent to which those of who live here feel a strong sense of place or passion for that place. Ask residents of Dulwich or Hampstead if they'd mind their council continually picking around with the name of their district and I think you'd get a much more passionate response.
Ugly dogs don't get the same lerv as cute dogs do.
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