A rubbish day in Harringay - Sunday 9 July

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Permalink Reply by Michael Anderson on July 10, 2017 at 14:19

Blimey, the Sybil Mews pic is a shocker.

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Permalink Reply by Maddy on July 10, 2017 at 15:55

That's the second dumped fridge/freezer pictured - I thought you were meant to take the doors off so no children could get trapped inside.

This whole project is a sorry indictment of Veolia's failure in Haringey, and by the way they still haven't picked up my food and garden waste which I called about on Fri and was told it would go in the next 24 hours.

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Permalink Reply by 1vut8bf3om5m9 on July 10, 2017 at 17:56

"Veolia's failure in Haringey"?  Ha ha ha ha.

How about such factors, including but not limited to:-

1) Poor upbringing of children. These sorts of things happen, e.g., when government takes the role of parents and looks to create a permanent underclass to ensure that one political party in particular (Labour) always stays in power. One of the many deleterious effects of liberalism is that it destroys the pride of the "victims" it purports to help. Thus, you give someone free or near free housing in a slum estate, you won't see "house proud". You will see "sh**ting in one's own nest." My personal favourite is when I see people just peeling away at a package wrapper, cigarette packs and the like and letting the bits fall to the pavement with each step they walk; and,

2) Unchecked immigration. You import people from all over the world, you import their problems. I remember going to Mexico regularly and you could tell when you were coming up to or leaving a town as there was an ad hoc dump on either side of it.  My anecdotal observations of who leaves the rubbish bags on Green Lanes next to any pole or whatever over time yield statistically consistent conclusions.

Yes Veolia should have picked up your garden trimming, but this ain't the reason why what we see day in day out and in the photos takes place. Seriously, you couldn't be further from wrong here.

Nothing will change until (1) Harringay becomes more gentrified; and/or (2) a serious spend is made to enforce existing ordinance on littering and dumping. That means digging through bags for envelopes with addresses, etc. A few stiff fines will assist teaching the transgressors a bit of civility. I'm not holding my breath. But it's OK, that's one reason I was able to afford a house here.

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Permalink Reply by Justin Guest on July 10, 2017 at 18:04

Controversial...

I see this as a lack of civil pride, possibly as a result of some of the drivers Michael mentions. People stop caring. I was once outside my flat (in Hackney) clearing up bag after bag of crap (litter and leaves) and one of the residents asked me if I was from the council. I said no I was her neighbor- she scuttle off being busy somewhere else as soon as I suggested she might want to pitch in.

This is part of the problem that once people start to think they are paying someone else for the responsibility of keeping our streets clean they stop giving a toss, and actively step back from doing anything. This is all part of the recognition that Cameron might not have been far of with his need for a Big Society (Christ, stop me, I am starting to sound like a Tory!)

People in a big anonymous city find that the anonymity allows them to default to a base state of idleness and fecklessness. I am not sure gentrification will help in honesty.

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Permalink Reply by John D on July 10, 2017 at 16:16

I think there are two separate issues here -

1) Residents / traders / landlords dumping rubbish. Veolia doesn't dump rubbish  - we do. You can't blame Veolia for the dumping.

2) Does Veolia collect rubbish from legitimate bins / food bins as they are supposed to ? Do they react quickly enough when advised of illegal dumping ? Do they collect their purple bags quickly enough ? Probably not.

Our pictures, however, are largely an indictment of the anti-social habits of residents / traders / landlords, not of Veolia.

Perhaps the Council could divert the litter wardens from cigarette ends and spitting to concentrate on the real culprits among us ( not that I condone spitting or discarding of cigarette ends )

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Permalink Reply by Michael Anderson on July 10, 2017 at 17:05

I think the whole nub of the problem this has been allowed to happen. When people see an area looking uncared for, they in turn don't care, dump rubbish, drop litter, throw their takeaways on the pavement. And it just spirals and spirals.
I think what needs to happen now is some intensive intervention. Get the place cleaned up, get the crap off the pavements and then follow that up with no holds barred, zero tolerance enforcement. And that is of those living here, trading here and shopping and eating here.

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Permalink Reply by JulieB on July 10, 2017 at 17:51

I agree Michael.

I will photograph my street on my evening dog walk.

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Permalink Reply by John D on July 10, 2017 at 17:57

I don't agree, Michael. I see the rubbish, the litter, the  takeaways and I don't feel it's ok to contribute to it. Some elements, unfortunately do.

 I agree, however, about enforcement. Can our councillors persuade the hierarchy to act ? Local elections are not so far away. I'd like to see a response from our three.

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Permalink Reply by Protheroe O'Shea on July 10, 2017 at 19:37

I thought there was a zero tolerance system going on with the private company fining people.

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Permalink Reply by Zena Brabazon on July 11, 2017 at 1:02

 I agree with you Michael about intensive intervention.

I have been reporting waste and dumping since I was elected, and also sending  pictures.  I know I sound like a broken record, but there has been endless money for lawyers and consultants for grandiose 'regeneration' schemes, area action plans and all the rest of it, but far less for waste management, enforcement, neighbourhood regeneration and community engagement. But as you might have gathered from this, not everyone in the Council agrees with my views that the local projects have a much better outcome for regeneration.

With changes to bulky waste collection, and to collections from flats above shops  coming in, it won't get any better - I think it has got much  worse already and will continue to do so.  I have contacted the new manager for Harringay , David Shipp, about the problems and hope to go round the ward with him next week, and with residents. He seems a proactive person so I hope he will someone who wants to work with people and respect their - i.e your -ideas.  I think we will also need to involve the environmental health officers who deal with HMOs. 

Without being too nostalgic, I do think there was progress when we had a neighbourhood focus.

Sadly the Council does not appear to have any organisational memory of things which did work.

Zena

Zena Brabazon

Councillor,  Harringay Ward

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Permalink Reply by Michael Anderson on July 11, 2017 at 6:29

Thanks Zena.
My intention now is to write to Cllr Ahmet, as the Cabinet member for Environment, linking in this thread and pictures, to ask that a definite, detailed action plan is drawn up to -
i). carry out an urgent intensive clear and clean of the area, including the paving on Green Lanes and Turnpike Lane
ii) follow this up with enforcement, actually knocking on doors to find out why bins are overflowing and on stored on the footpath and what can be done about it, checking dumped rubbish to try to find out the identity of the dumpers, going to homes and businesses to ask what they know about rubbish left on their doorsteps
iII) planning how to prevent the area returning to a rubbish dump, including the role of Frontline staff in spotting, reporting and prosecuting littering and flytippiing.
iv) let all of us in the area, residents and businesses, know what the plan of action is and how we are going to be kept informed about progress.

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Permalink Reply by John D on July 11, 2017 at 8:03

Thank you Zena. I hope we will hear from Gina and Emine too. As Beale said in Network   " I'm mad as hell and we're not going to take it any more ".

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