Harringay online

Harringay, Haringey - So Good they Spelt it Twice!

I was fed up with the constant fly-tipping on my road, which despite reporting to Veolia on numerous occasions, continues on a near weekly basis. Nothing seemed to have been done about it, so I contacted Veolia recently to ask them what strategies they employ to combat persistent fly-tipping in Haringey and how they work with the local authorities to reduce fly-tipping. I got the following response from them.

"Veolia is  working in partnership with Haringey Council to clear all fly-tips which are found and/or reported to improve the impact that these occurrences have on the street scene. Through this partnership, we are aiming to provide measures to reduce the amount of reported fly-tips with the overall aim of preventing rubbish from being dumped illegally within the borough. 

The Haringey Veolia Partnership have identified 50 fly-tipping hot spot locations and working together we are visiting one a week to engage with local residents to ensure they are aware of how to report fly tipping and how to dispose of bulky items. 

In respect of this, Haringey Council are responsible for all  Enforcement activities in relation to fly-tipping.

I was intrigued by the “50 fly-tipping hot spot locations” and also astounded to learn they visit only one a week(!). I probed further but came up against a brick wall with Veolia informing me that Haringey Council would not let them disclose the list of top fly-tipping spots. They said I had to put in a freedom of information request. After waiting patiently for a few weeks they sent me the following list of locations (also attached). I don't think this is available online, so here it is (spelling mistakes are Haringey's, not mine!):

Road

Location

1

Acacia Road N22

By recycling bins

2

Avenue Mews N10

 

3

Boreham Road N22

near number 2

4

Caradon Way N15

Chedworth House

5

Carbuncle Passage N17

J/W Park View Road

6

Carew Road N17

 

7

Cavendish Road N4 near J/W Green Lanes (87/88)

 

8

Clonmell Road J/W Higham Road

 

9

Clyde Road N15

By Bridge

10

Compton Crescent N17 by Recycling bin

 

11

Craven park Road N22

TBC

12

Douglas Road N22

Next to recycling bins by Acaica House

13

Downhills Park Road J/W Downhills Avenue N17

 

14

Dunbar Road N22

Lordship lane End by recycling bins

15

Eade Road N4

TBC

16

Ermine Road N15

No 1-101

17

Etherley Road N15 near number 1

 

18

Fairfax Road N22

TBC

19

Fladbury Road N15

No27-47

20

Flexmere Road N17 J/W Carrick Gardens (houshold bulk items)

 

21

Gladesmore Road N15

TBC

22

Gladstone Mews N22

Entrance to Mews side wall by house

23

Grove park Road J/W West Green Road N15

FAS

24

Harringay Park Road by Libruary

 

25

Hastings Road J/W Higham Road N17

 

26

Havelock Road N15

TBC

27

Hermitage Road N4

TBC

28

Heybourne Road N17

 

29

High Road N15 under Railway bridge

FAS

30

Highfield Close

 

31

Hillside road N15

Cul-de-sack end

32

Kimberley Gardens N4 near number 2

 

33

Lemsford Close N15

No 1-24

34

Lyminton Avenue

J/W Pelham Road

35

Newland Road N8 opposite Boyton Road near recycling bank

 

36

Queens Avenue N10 outside Queens Mansions

 

37

Queenswood Road N6

All of Road, no properties but properties on Wood vale and wood lane

38

Risley Avenue N17

TBC

39

Roebuck Close N17

 

40

Roseberry Mews N10

 

41

Scotland Green N17 J/W Kemble Road

 

42

Stoneleigh Road N17

Rear of Beehive Pub/ Added 21/03/2014

43

Strode Road J/W stMargarets Road

 

44

Suffield Road N15 both ends of Road

FAS?

45

Sydney Road J/W Harringay Passage

 

46

Turner Avenue N15

No 1-16 & 30-56

47

Twekesbury Road N15

TBC

48

Upper Tollington Park J/s Stroud Green Road

 

49

Weir Hall Road N17

TBC

50

West Green Road

 

51

Westerfield Road car park entrance

 

52

White Hart lane N17 outside number 7

 

53

Winkfield Road N22

Next to recycling bins

54

Waltheof Avenue N17 J/W Lordship Lane (FAS waste in wrong place)

FAS

55

Myddleton Road

Added to list 29/05/2014

56

Highfield Close N22

Added to list June 2014

57

Lansdowne Road N17 83&93

Unregistered alleyway between 83 and 93 (Added to list 30/06/2014)

I am sure there are many more locations across Haringey that could be added to this list. 

I also asked what measures they had in place to reduce fly-tipping. They said they were implementing the following:

  • Free collection for almost all types of bulky household waste
  • Two Reuse and Recycling centres provided for free disposal of almost every type of waste
  • Fly-tip hotspot programme – visits to all properties in a 50 metre radius of over 50 fly-tip hotspots to educate and advise residents about how to dispose of their waste properly, followed by three weeks of enforcement and investigation visits to check for fly-tips, investigate for evidence of origin if fly-tips are found, and take enforcement action where possible.
  • Visits to all businesses to check for legally required Duty of Care documents to prove that proper waste collection contracts are in place
  • Waste leave downs on main roads – we deliberately don’t collect waste on a particular day so we can search through waste left for collection to look for evidence of fly-tipped waste
  • Multi-channelled reporting for fly-tips so residents can tell us where fly-tips need to be picked up, fast collection to avoid fly-tips encouraging more fly-tipping.
  • Twice per day picks up from locations with flats above shops to avoid waste on streets for too long
  • Problem solving at sites where off-street storage capacity for waste and/or wheelie bins is limited or not available so that where practicable residents have a viable alternative to leaving waste on pavements.  
  • Bespoke waste storage and collections solutions at sites with specific waste storage difficulties.
  • Comments provided on Planning Applications to ensure that waste arising from new, extended or refurbished property is adequately provided for.

Veolia’s performance for effectiveness of fly-tip strategy is measured through a Strategic Performance Indicator based on the number of fly-tip reports by residents. The table below sets out the targets for Year 1 to Year 4 of the contract showing how the number reported by residents should fall over time based on prevention by encouraging people to dispose of waste properly and also on fast collection of fly-tipping so residents do not need to report them. Haringey are saying they have met this target each year included the third year.

I'm not convinced this is the most effective measure of performance because it may just be an indication that people are not bothering to report fly-tipping rather there being less fly-tipping to report. In my personal experience fly-tipping hasn't reduced where I live and I'm sure others would agree.

Year 1 2011/12 target

Year 1 2011/12 score

Year 2 2012/13 target

Year 2 2012/13 score

Year 3 2013/14          

 target

Year 3 2013/14  

 score

Year 4 2014/15

target

 

Number of Flytips reported by residents per month

600

487

540

367

486

 

Not yet   

 published

450

Number of financial penalties/prosecutions below:

YEAR

FPN

PROSECUTION

2010 - 2011

274

39

2011 – 2012

154

29

2012 – 2013

216

18

2013 – 2014

440

20

2014 – 2015 (to 9.7.14)

37

14

It would be interesting to see how these figures compare with other London boroughs.

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Replies to This Discussion

Beresford Road should be added to the list and Veoila are a complete and utter joke.

I don't know the reason Veolia were unwilling to disclose the 50 fly-tipping "hotspots". Although it's just possible that they were afraid to encourage fly-tipping by the "traditional white-van-man" looking for somewhere to dump. Had you thought of that?

In any case, had you a particular constructive purpose in mind when posting this list?  I'm not saying there isn't one. But I'd like you to explain it, please.

When your LibDem colleague Karen Alexander and I were councillors we served on a Scrutiny Panel on waste and fly-tipping etc.  Karen made valuable contributions to the discussions.

One of the things which we established was that the figures for fly-tip reports were highly dubious. (This may have changed since. ) It was because the definition of a "fly-tip" included a single bag. With a pile of five of twentyfive bags piled-up elsewhere still counted as a single fly-tip. This definition was set by an Environment Agency database called "Flycapture". It seemed almost certain that some other London boroughs did not follow the same definition.

Because of that database, it wouldn't "be interesting to know how these figures compare with other London  boroughs".  Because the LibDems do already know the number of fly-tips recorded by other London Boroughs.  Also - I may be wrong - but I seem to recall a Press Release on this.

Asha I hope that I am wrong. Because if I'm right it suggests that your Party is still engaged in the same sterile yah-boo politics that achieved so little in the past four years. The residents of Haringey desperately need and deserve better than this to oppose the appallingly incompetent Kober Regime and its right-wing Tory policies.

I know that many of my Labour party colleagues are deeply unhappy with my "speaking truth to power"  in public criticism of them and the Council. But the fair-minded people also know that when I have raised problems I always try to suggest potential solutions as well.

So I'm very disappointed you've not made a single suggestion or come up with a fresh idea. Or an idea from somewhere else. There have been plenty on this website.

Your Twitter profile says you're a "Policy Officer". As I've explained on my Flickr photoblog that can often be a completely pointless job.  But at least on HoL, Asha, you have the opportunity to start thinking and speaking for yourself. It's also fun!

Not sure I can agree with your analysis there, Alan.

Sitting on a scrutiny committee means you are privy to information that us mere voters are often blocked from knowing about or, at best, it's like getting blood out of a stone.

I know you are dubious about the value of 'Flycapture' and I understand your reasons but just getting this company to tell you what they are doing to tackle to problem is very difficult - it's all "we will pass your comments on to the team" or "thank you for your suggestion". Never any concrete feedback on any action requested.

You may be right to question Asha's motives and point out that she has a 'job' at LDHQ but then a few of the *councillors* we have to rely on to fight our corner have similar jobs in the Party. Should we wonder to whom they will show loyalty when the residents and the Party don't see eye to eye? Asha might just be fed up with fly tipping, which is becoming a serious issue across the borough again. After a brief honeymoon with this company, their response times and clean up rates are at the levels of the old Accord dark days. This isn't yah boo politics - there's support from members of all parties for action and for holding Veolia up to some sort of scrutiny - because something isn't right and we need to find out what.

However, they must be doing something, so we can, at least, see where they think the problems lie and what they think they can do about it.

Residents (and Asha is a resident as well as a LD member ) shouldn't have to provide the solutions to problems when people are paid to do it - even though some of us choose to add our two euros worth on a regular basis - there is a risk that by asking for solutions along with a problem raised you silence people who are merely fed up, want something done and don't have the time to ponder answers. Asha asked some questions, now its up to all of us to consider what the answers we have here mean for the campaign to make good the Koberclaim that we live in one of the "cleanest boroughs"

Actually, Liz, I don't agree that Veolia are now as bad at keeping the streets clean as Accord. I don't have anything like the same photographic record of Green Lanes and the Ladder roads as I have of High Road Tottenham and the streets near our home. But back in 2003 when I bought my first digital camera, the standard my old photos show was shocking. And had been for several years; and stayed dire in many places. It has improved!

I didn't know Asha worked in LibDem HQ, Liz. I've now looked at her profile on the LibDem website which says "Policy Officer with a cancer charity".  And while I agree with you that residents are not paid to come up with solutions to the problems of dumping etc, that's never stopped you!  (Though the closed-minds in Haringey Council refused to pay attention to you.)

Let's also remember that Asha stood to be a councillor. Had national politics worked out differently, she'd now be one. Perhaps she may stand again. So I'm genuinely interested in her own observations, thoughts and reflections on these problems.

Maybe distance lends enchantment but I don't remember pre-Veolia days as being bad over here. I don't remember bags of Accord rubbish piled up in the streets ( but then, they weren't purple so perhaps less obvious  ) I feel that the present disgraceful state is due to two things

- the move to 2 weekly collections - a Council decision, not Veolia

- a shift in the demographics and increase in multi-occupancy

I have to admire the Veolia workers on the street who really put effort into it.

- the move to 2 weekly collections - a Council decision, not Veolia

This is significant. Two-weekly general rubbish collection suits me personally, just fine, as I generate little rubbish and my food waste is composted by a neighbour.

However, I estimate there is a small proportion of streets in our Borough (under five per cent?) for which exceptions need to be made to the council's ONE SIZE FITS ALL policy.

In Highgate Ward – where I am one of the three local councillors who work on behalf of residents – there are perhaps two or three streets (out of about 90 -100 streets) for which the fortnightly policy is unsatisfactory and it needs to be changed to weekly. They are:

  • Milton Avenue
  • Milton Road
  • Milton Park (part of, possibly)

These streets largely feature HMOs with no front gardens. Maximum-capacity bins are arranged in a long line along the pavement, offering obstruction to pedestrians, including the blind, elderly, disabled and mobility scooters. Weekly collection would reduce the need for such capacity on the pavement.

I have little doubt that there are other roads in the Borough where the council needs to adjust its policy. Unfortunately, ONE SIZE does not FIT ALL. So far, the council resists improving the service to these streets. At the recent area forum, however, I was pleased to see cross-party co-operation on behalf of residents and a resolution about this chronic problem was passed unanimously.

--

In Stroud Green, over the North London line, fly-tipping used to happen on the Oakfield Road bridge.

The bridge (obviously) remains not-overlooked by houses. Since the imposition of CPZs in the area, beginning some years ago with Pay-and-Display in Finsbury Park, parking now generally occupies the bridge and there's less opportunity for builder's van-loads of rubble, car-wrecks or similar, to be dumped.

However, it was a chronic problem, don't doubt it's happening elsewhere and can be a huge eyesore. It gives an impression that an area is uncared for.


Councillor—Highgate Ward

Liberal Democrat Party

Indeed - and the rebuilding of the bridge parapets and associated fencing renewal has made that local area look a bit more 'cared for' - it was 'please tip here' before, it seemed to me.

Well yes, see my later comment. You can't change the demographic so you have to try and work out ways to work with them to change these habits. That's where the council and Veolia can do more than just sweep up after the many and fine the few they manage to catch. The 'running to stand still' model isn't working.

It should be said that Veolia pledged to *reduce* fly tipping by 50% in 2 years, although how they reach that figure, where they started from and what they consider success is still a bit if a mystery. 

Finding ways to change habits. Absolutely! Pushes and nudges and incentives in the right direction.

So let's not forget the "perverse incentive" of a prompt and efficient clearance but without corresponding change in behaviour. This morning there was a fresh pile of dumped bags on the pavement by a litter bin in our street. It was cleared around midday.

The next time we walk by I expect there'll be a few more bags. Perhaps some people will think this is "good service" from Veolia?  Even that they're "helping" by leaving bagged waste where it'll soon be collected?

_______________________________

By the way, I dug out my notes of a 1999 meeting with Keith Collins who first pointed me to Canadian experience. And a link to a BBC programme where he answered calls and emails. Apologies if I posted it before.

Attachments:

Did they give any indication of targets for reducing fly tipping? Or rather than moving the goalposts,  have they simply removed them altogether? After all performance management is much easier if you set yourself no targets.

Asha, Can I suggest you check this out with Cllr Stuart McNamara.

Have they produced a Benefits Realisation Report, independently audited then?

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