Harringay, Haringey - So Good they Spelt it Twice!
Bus journey times since the bridge closure
Like many people I thought that my journey times on the bus between Iceland and Manor House had increased substantially since the closure of the Wightman Road bridge. I emailed Tfl for data on journey times and they kindly sent me the numbers for the whole of January 2016 (before the bridge closure) and May (after the bridge closure). I asked for the information on the 29, 141 and 341 buses running between Salisbury Road to Manor House as this is seems to be the most congested part of Green Lanes as it runs through the area.
I've had a quick look and charted the average journey times for the 29 bus, in both directions, which is attached. In summary what the numbers seems to be saying are
Monday to Friday southbound. (Iceland to Manor House). There is virtually no difference in the journey times going south. When the bus lane ceases to be in operation the journey time rises by about 1 minute.
Monday to Friday northbound (Manor House to the Post Office). About a minute longer on average until the parking restriction cease and then about an extra 4 minutes on average
Saturdays southbound. Very little difference until 10am then an increase of around 2.5 minutes.
Saturdays northbound. Same as southbound but a slightly longer increase of 3 minutes on the average journey time from 10am
Sundays southbound. Hardly any difference until 10am then an increase of about 2 minutes
Sundays northbound. The mornings are more or less the same but then an increase of almost 6 minutes between 1-4pm and again between 7-10pm
I have to admit to being surprised as I thought journey times would have increased far more but wonder how much of this is down to the perception you have when you're in traffic of going nowhere.
It's also clear that allowing parking on Green Lanes has a real impact on journey times. The northbound traffic snarls up badly on Sundays when the restaurants and other businesses are the most busy and when the Arena traffic is at it's height.
The northbound data is probably the most interesting because, as there is no bus lane going north, buses travel with the rest of the traffic at all times so average journey times for vehicles is probably about the same or less (as cars don't have to stop at bus stops)
Attached is a PDF of the charts for the 29 bus and the full data sets (Excel) for those with a mind to have a play with them.
Tags for Forum Posts: bus journey, green, lanes, traffic, wightman bridge closure
- Attachments:
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29 Bus journey pdf.pdf, 392 KB -
Bus journey times original data.xlsx, 203 KB
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Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Hugh on
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8:30 may be out of the school rush hour, but I think it's peak commuter rush hour.
TfL have rush hour running from 07:30 to 9:30. They say that "crunch time" is 08:30 to 08:45.
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Permalink Reply by Angela on
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Maybe if you work locally or part-time or are on flexible hours.
There are 12 or so secondary schools in this borough which means approximately 12,000 children on the move from 7.30 onwards. Some of them walk, some of them travel by bus, sometimes 2 buses, some travel by tube - and very few cycle to school.
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Oh nor would I, which is why we can all be thankful for the TfL data which rises above our own individual stories.
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No Jessica, what I said was:
I took the bus south along Green Lanes from Tesco twice today. First at 08:30, then at 13:00. I don't know if I was lucky, but both journeys seemed to pretty much bear out TfL's data.
I simply shared my experience. I made no suggestion that anyone else's experience was less valid than mine.
On the other hand your response was:
Well I wouldn't judge the situation on your one day travelling during rush hour
I will leave it open to the judgement of souls wiser than me as to who, if anyone, is suggesting that "anyone else's experience..doesn't matter".
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Permalink Reply by Michael Anderson on
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Well, it's actually me who produced the chart from the TfL, not Tris, and I assure you there isn't anything in the slightest bit holy about it!
Averages are useful but they of course don't report on every individual experience. For instance I get the 8:00ish W5 bus towards Archway most Thursday mornings. My experience of that journey is down to factors on that particular journey, so it may be the bus that always has a driver change on its route, always hits the bin collection on Ridge Road and so on. So my experience of that one journey is that it takes much longer than average but that doesn't make the average journey time any less true.
Equally it could be the bus that sails through as it misses all the stuff like the school run so my journey time is much less than the average. That's why taking a large sample size (in this case over 6,000 in each direction on the 29 bus) is important as it irons out both the peaks and troughs of performance. -
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Permalink Reply by Pat on
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Before the Bridge Closure, I could drop my son off at school then get the 29 bus from outside Iceland at 8:15 and be in work in Camden by 8:45. after the bridge closure, for the same journey, I am getting into work at about 9, which is averaging 15 min longer. The return journey used to take 40-45 mins and is now taking up to an hour (leaving work around 6:30).
This is not clouded by perception but is actual experience. i drop my son off at the same time every school day and I check my watch as I arrive at the office because it is a routine of mine (the extra 15 mins allowed me to have breakfast at work). Similarly, for the return journey, I am always checking my watch and I have been getting off at the baseball field because it is quicker than the bus (I get to Pemberton Rd bus stop by foot well before the bus)
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Interestingly, I am working from home today so dropped my son off at school for 8:50 and Green Lanes has much less traffic at 8:45 although it doesn't help my travel time. This shows that people have different experiences with the buses depending on when they travel, although I have to add the caveat that it is an N of 1 in terms of my observation of the traffic volume at a time outside of my normal routine.
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Your experience is much the same as mine. I travel to Upper Street in Islington and the fact is I need to be able to drop my son to school (which I do on foot) get to the bus stop, bus to Finsbury Park, walk, 2nd bus to Islington, do a full 8 hour day and then do the reverse journey in time to pick him up from after school club before 6pm. It's a struggle and it shouldn't be. The Wightman Road closure doesn't just affect Green Lanes (though I would argue that an increase of 4 minutes to a journey of around a mile is pretty significant). The traffic including my No. 29 home at 5pm ish takes forever to pass under the railway bridge at Finsbury Park. Previously some of that traffic would have turned up Fonthill Road to join Tollington Park...now because Wightman is closed, all the traffic funnels up under that bridge. It has sometimes taken an hour to do 3 miles on 2 buses. Thank God the school holidays are on the horizon.
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I think it's worth pointing out that this data is for journeys between the St Anne's Road and Manor House stretch of GL only and not the whole journey taken if if starts/ends before or after these points. For example I took the 29 to Camden Town last Tuesday and the main hold up then was at the big development site on the corner of Camden Road and St Pancras Way. I'd unfortunately managed to be on the bus when the lorries were all going on site so we were held up for about 5 minutes
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Permalink Reply by sandy on
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I see that bus times being discussed are from Iceland to Manor House. I live on Falkland Road and often travel on the 29 bus in peak hours. Since Wightman Road had been closed the back up of traffic travelling south from Duckett Common to Sailsbury Road is awful at peak hours. This is because the traffic lights at St Ann's hold up traffic going south and north. Now I walk down to Iceland to get on the bus and I get there before the buses do. After Iceland the traffic flows better but not always. The reverse is true when travelling North, the traffic flow improves from Salisbury to Falkland. It is the same on afternoons during the weekend. I have also noticed my asthma has got much worse because of the fumes produced by standing traffic with their engines on. You may say get on the tube or overground then - but for many people these forms of transport are much more expensive than the bus. Or get on yer bike but cycling is not a practical option for all people.
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Thanks for sharing this analysis, Michael - very interesting. However, I wonder whether just looking at this short section doesn't give an accurate picture of the change in journey times on green lanes, particularly southbound. It might just be the times I tend to get the bus, but I found that traffic was always slow moving between the Salisbury and Manor House. It is on the occasions when the southbound traffic backs up to Turnpike Lane that I know the the journey is going to take much longer (and I just get off and walk). So although increased congestion might show up as causing a slightly longer journey for the section you have analysed, the bigger impact might be felt on the sections that tend not usually to be congested. Does that make sense?
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Makes absolute sense Sean. When I asked for the data I had to give a start and end point for it. I chose that particular stretch of road because it's the only section where you have all three bus routes running along side one another.
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