Harringay, Haringey - So Good they Spelt it Twice!
Towed from Devon Gardens
Hello HOL
Canvassing views/advice. I came back from a long drive Sunday night to find Roseberry Gardens, where I live, chocca block and no space to park. I parked up on Devon Gardens, assuming that my annual permit for Roseberry reached that far. I went to work Monday, came back to find the car had been towed and that I had to pay £265 (£65 parking fine, £200 recovery from car pound in Edmonton) to get it back.
I accept the fine - clearly I should have looked at the restrictions, which say 'business parking only' but to get towed away seems excessive. There are no signs stating 'towing in operation' or something similar. I always assumed that towing was for offences that blocked other cars, disabled bays, were dangerous etc. I've attached a photo I took on the day of Devon Gardens - it doesn't appear to be the most used stretch of parking and hardly business critical.
I have no doubt that the council are protected by the law and I won't get anything back on appeal but I do wonder if there is anything I can do to prevent this happening to others. It should at least be made clear that they will tow from this area. What are others thoughts? Have I just been stupid and need to move on or is this something worth kicking up a fuss about?
George
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Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Gordon T on
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Towing's more lucrative than clamping, and also removes the obstruction, even when there's plenty of space anyway. There are websites like 'Mr Mustard' much invoked by Alan Stanton that address whether the signs and so on comply with every letter of the law, to look for a get-out.
Every few years a jolt of (financial) unpleasant reality makes one (well, me) take a closer look at things. Chalk it up to experience, I think. And if the mantra becomes 'What more can austerity-hit councils do (to me) to raise income' then that's unfortunately how it is.
Another local fundraising 'gotcha' to look out for - and will be much worse when Wightman Road is closed Mar-Sept 2016 - is the box junction at Green Lanes/Endymion Road. Northbound, the space ahead of you gets taken by another driver changing lanes at the last minute as the lights change, that camera is manned early morning to late evening (you can see it changing direction), and bingo another £65 to the council. Even cars turning left onto Green Lanes infringe it because of the layout.
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Permalink Reply by Alan Stanton on
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Gordon T, I saw your reference to me and Derek Dishman (Mr Mustard) about whether "the signs and so on comply with every letter of the law, to look for a get-out".
For me - and I'd guess for Derek too (but he can speak, eloquently, for himself) - I don't think it's fair to say that the issue is simply looking for a get-out. The point is fairness and trust.
People do make mistakes. Some of them, like George Garrad, have paid for a permit and without trying to cheat anyone - park a street away. Others genuinely misread the signage - it's not difficult to do. Others put a permit on the dashboard and it gets blown onto the floor. And so on.
Parking is not a crime. Being a driver is not a crime. Parking charges are not taxes. Maybe they will become taxes, but now the courts have held that local councils' Parking Services are not allowed to be run as a tax-raising businesses.
Flickr keeps a tally of people who view my photos. To my continuing surprise a photo with the largest number of hits shows Factory Lane - a short back street in Tottenham. In 2009 I used it to illustrate my failed efforts to get Haringey to treat its residents with a little more fairness and flexibility over parking tickets. (PCNs)Under the photo I posted my email correspondence with the then Chief Executive, Dr Ita O'Donovan. Suggesting to her that there is - or at least should be - trust and confidence; openness and accountability at the heart of the relationship between local councils and their residents.
I also said that there is an implied agreement with our residents who buy permits. That they are entitled to expect and trust the Council to put in legally correct lines and signs. And that when the Council enforces these, residents are entitled to expect and have confidence in the Council following the legal rules.George Garrod accepts that he broke the rule. But if I understand him correctly, he also thinks that the Council should be open to a "plea in mitigation". I agree with him. Not because I hope he finds a get-out. But because I think rules should also have a measure of equity applied to them. And that this builds trust and confidence between the Council and residents.
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Permalink Reply by Hugh on
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I'd have a word with one of your councillors and see what they say. They may be able to help you, or at the very least get an explantion on the policy of towing for us all. I agree with you. Ticket, through very gritted teeth, fair enough, but a tow? No way - OTT!
Try Barbara Blake - barbara.blake@haringey.gov.uk
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I had a similar experience this morning when I parked by mistake (a genuine mistake) in a business bay on Essex Gardens - which was virtually empty. I was away from the car for between 10 and 15 minutes, and came back to see it being lifted onto a truck. The contravention on the ticket when I eventually got the car out of the pound was for 4 minutes - so the truck arrived within 4 minutes of my being given a parking ticket. I think this is unreasonable, and it cost me real distress and serious inconvenience - and £265. I have written to Haringey Council asking what the rationale is for towing vehicles away - I can't find any detail online. I also intend to appeal.
Will you do the same? I think it would be helpful to have more than my voice on this one. I'll also contact our Councillor Barbara Blake about it tomorrow. Have you been in touch with her?
Has anyone else had a similar experience?
Cathy Graham, Warwick Gardens
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Hi Cathy
Thanks for sharing your experience. Happy to kick up a fuss together - power in numbers etc. Will keep you up to date with how I get on
George
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Thanks George - that sounds good. I will be sending in a representation over Christmas and will let you know how I get on. I have asked the Parking Department what criteria are used in deciding whether to tow a car away as opposed to just giving a parking fine. I was told at the car pound that the decision is taken by the parking warden and the driver of the tow truck, so there must be criteria, though I can't find any details on-line.
Cathy
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That speed of response suggests a camera (or a camera car) scans the area - unless you were very unfortunate.
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Permalink Reply by John D on
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I have seen tow trucks trawling the streets. They stop at a line of cars, a parking warden gets out, looks at the cars and tickets someone. The tow truck immediately lifts the offending car. Whole thing over in 5 minutes.
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Permalink Reply by John McMullan on
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Yup, that's exactly how it works. If they weren't under the auspices of a government body it would be... extortion.
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It would seem certain locations are deemed appropriate for towing. Business only and match day restrictions are favourite. On match days you will see tow trucks cruising big time.
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Thanks for everyone's replies - I am with you Alan - I'm not especially interested in getting off on a technicality, it's more about whether or not the council thinks this is an appropriate way of treating their residents. I will communicate with them and let you know how I get on. I have already had a reply from Barbara.
George
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Excellent. If you feel that you could get better service out of your councillors then join the Labour Party and attend their selection meetings.
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