Harringay, Haringey - So Good they Spelt it Twice!
UPDATE: RUBBISH AROUND TURNPIKE LANE
after 9 days of daily tweets, fixmystreet reports and emails, A Veolia employee was waiting for me on Thursday at the spot I have been twice daily tweeting (@itsafaff) a photo of the problem. Just one small example of a much wider problem in the borough.
He explained Frome Road is a collection point, collection schedules etc. The council have now closed the case and assume this is now resolved. But a conversation is not a resolution and to assume that it is speaks volumes about the council’s response to the problem. I wrote to CLLR Mallet today and below is the text of the email. It summarises activity over the last 10 days.
I picked the area around Turnpike Lane specifically because I go there every day, it is small and I wanted to focus on one example of a bigger problem. Get something done there and move on ... As others are doing with some success. Your advice, support appreciated.
· We need bins at the major collection points. There are bins outside Hornsey Station. I notice a difference in the services and facilities for the posher parts of the borough.
· We need these bins at Turnpike Lane/Westbury Avenue around the tube. Specifically Frome Road. There are many cafes in this area, more shops than around Hornsey Station. Stuart McNamara tweeted yesterday at 1pm that they will locate a bin where there is a similar problem, as a pilot – can you do this for us?
· We need Veolia to collect at the times it says it will – and not to neglect an area in the hope that no one will notice or be bothered to complain.
· We need more frequent collections.
Since I began making a fuss about the problem around Turnpike Lane tube station, this is what has happened:
· I leafleted 20 shops around the station. Discussed the problem with staff, managers and owners. Many were open and supportive. I have noticed that the supermarket and the taxi firm outside the station are now sweeping the pavement outside their shops daily.
· I have tweeted (@itsafaff) daily/timed photos of uncollected rubbish bags, specifically at the collection point at the end of Frome Road and used the app FixMyStreet to report it.
· A Veolia representative approached me there on Thursday morning to explain that it is a collection point and the collection should take place twice a day. They do not – not every day, my pics and tweets prove it.
· In 10 days tweeting and campaigning about this very tiny area – I have found that there are many people doing the same as me, who are not happy with the way Haringey Council and Veolia manage waste collection. IE piles of rubbish waiting at ‘collection points’ and insufficient collections.
· The Veolia rep told me that there are two collections daily – and two vans to do the job in the borough. Is this sufficient? Many people living and working in Haringey would say not.
· It is bad for business. There is a new gastro-style pub opening on Westbury Avenue (The Westbury)spending considerable amounts of money doing the place up – they support what We are doing and have tweeted that they don’t like the mounds of rubbish lining the street – especially the very big pile that often lies neglected on Frome Rd.
· The businesses around Turnpike Tube – whilst they are responsible for the bags because they generate the waste, don’t think the council collects often enough.
There remains a problem. Despite the response below – it is NOT resolved.
· Piles of rubbish bags sit at the end of Frome Road (and many other places in the borough) and remain uncollected for long periods of time. I have never once walked past this spot and not seen a pile of rubbish bags.
· The piles of bags encourage others to dump their waste. This is clear by the amount the piles grow, the black, and other bags that are added, and the other items dumped with them.
· This system of managing waste collection is failing the borough. It is unsanitary.
· The piles stain the pavement – badly. And leave a strong smell, especially in warm weather.
· I have seen rats, birds and foxes pulling the bags apart and spreading the rubbish.
Would you be kind enough to give me a proper response, one that will give me some faith that I am not dismissed as a nutter, that you take the issue seriously, that you will arrange for a bin at the collection point on Frome Road, that you will ensure that the service provided by Veolia meets need and that they carry out their contractual obligations.
Turnpike Lane tube station is a magnificent modernist building. Arriving in that hall is impressive. Coming out of it is not. This is one small thing that is within our power to change.
Jackie Chambers
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Abi on
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Would you be open to people from other wards joining in? Because I'm fighting the same fight but without the back-up here in Seven Sisters. Lots of local people are as annoyed as I am, but they're not all so down with Twitter and technology - so I feel I need to work extra hard on their behalf sometimes.
Jacqui, how funny, you must know several mates of mine, I've known a few digital bods at Dogs Trust over the years. I manage social media campaigns for brands, so this is also second nature for me :)
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Permalink Reply by e spengler on
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Other ward people joining in: why not? Lessons, tactics and contacts discovered here can be applied elsewhere, strength in numbers. Your fellow annoyed locals are as needed - technology isn't the answer here. It's easy to rage online - this will require work in meat space, not cyberspace.
Pressure tactic idea: have many wards join in, all over the borough, get organized over the next few years (low expectations) and by the next council elections be in such a strong position (sheer numbers) that we can swing the vote in vulnerable wards.
As an a-political citizen "union", we apply the democratic accountability stick. Sort the problem, or on a ward-by-ward basis, we will ask our members to vote for the runner-up Councillors (2nd most likely to win) instead of those that won.
This will require easily a thousand of members in most wards to do this, fewer in some wards.
Unlikely and overly ambitious perhaps, but we have years to work on this and it will take years to solve the problem anyway.
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Permalink Reply by Julia on
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I'm not sure about all that (the voting part - to these jaded eyes one politician's colours are much the same as any other's at present) but holding our elected representatives to account in the here and now? Absolutely. (Let's not forget Veolia's role in all this too)
Abster - yes absolutely as far as I'm concerned (our bit of West Green is right on the border with Noel Park anyway so it's all pretty arbitrary).
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Julia - I'm with you on the "all the same" bit, it's not that I expect the alternative to be any better, it's just to punish/motivate the ones currently in charge.
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Permalink Reply by Jacqui O'Beirne on
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ha ha really I must have employed them over the years, I've been running teh department for seven years :) Small world!
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Let's assume the Westbury unless someone comes up with something better - gives us enough time to get a little bit more organised.
Weekday evening or a weekend day? I think it might be easier to get traction on a Saturday or a Sunday than a weekend evening. Either works for me (after 20:00 on weekdays).
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I happy for anytime.
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Permalink Reply by SarahC on
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Yes, and it would attract attention. I'm sure there are a lot of people who feel strongly about this and don't read this website.
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Permalink Reply by Alan Stanton on
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I don't think it's futile, Jackie. But maybe I'm a bit more hard-headed than I once was about the degree of pressure needed. And the time it takes from local residents. Plus the very real impact of cuts.
I said West Green Road was pretty bad when I walked there on the afternoon of 28 September. But in recent weeks it was also bad in the evenings when we went to the Chenai Express Restaurant (118A West Green Road) and to the Buonissimo (451). Both were very reasonably priced. Both excellent. Both had helpful welcoming staff who are obviously working hard to make a go of their businesses.
And both they and other businesses along West Green Road are badly let down by our Council. And crucially by other people there. Whether traders, residents, landlords, builders, fly-tippers. I can't say.
Yet it's crystal clear to everyone who wants to improve/regenerate/develop a part of Haringey that having consistently clean streets is a vital factor in achieving success. In any regeneration strategy or plan there'll be a paragraph like the one below. (Possibly it's the same paragraph, cut and pasted and tweaked by Deja Vu Associates or whichever consultants turn up this week/month.)
"Making Tottenham’s streets cleaner is a major priority; this is something that everyone – the council, businesses, landlords and residents should be responsible for and take pride in. The physical environment could be given a face-lift through better rubbish collection, renovating shop fronts, as well as ensuring that shops do not let their produce spill out on to the pavements."
But where to start in response to the collective energy and suggestions on this thread? I'd still suggest Cllr Stuart McNamara. In the last Council he was an effective chair of the Environment Scrutiny Panel which was genuinely cross-party. I'm not saying the Panel was the last word. There's always room for new ideas and challenge about old ideas. But a lot of useful thinking and information was brought together. Give it a go.
I also know that one of the suggestions to Stuart from my wife Zena Brabazon was to have a non-party "Reference Group" of local residents. To be a sounding board; critical friends, and critics; to bring questions, suggestions and ideas.
And here on HoL are a bunch of people willing maybe to explore this with him. Or perhaps if people don't get on with Stuart, then to take the idea forward themselves.
As far as I know, Stuart McNamara doesn't follow HoL. But he's on Twitter as @SJMMcNamara. From where you'll see he's been doing some good stuff e.g. with Haringey cyclists. And of course he uses nineteenth century technology - the telephone. And grandparents' old-fashioned email.
I don't know if such a Reference Group set-up works in other boroughs or cities. If it does then it would be very useful to learn the dos-and-don'ts lessons. It seems important to me that the Group should be working with the Council and not to them. We've seen the "Big Man" or "Big Woman" model and it has very serious limitations. No. Let's be more blunt. It's crap.
If leaders are any good at all at their job they will value "backtalk" from independent-minded people who tell them the truth. Failing leaders try to drive out critics.
An upbeat anecdote. However bad things are in my or your neighbourhood I have old photos of High Road Tottenham which will out-filth anything you now see. What changed the situation? Well not my reports and photos.
The key event was the by-election which sent David Lammy to Parliament. Top Labour Party apparatchiks were drafted-in and a temporary office was rented in High Road Tottenham. Having that base and going out and about they were shocked, (and probably appalled, disgusted, sickened, and any other synonym) by the state of that main road. I assume that "words" were had with whichever Leader/Chief Executive/Director we were putting up with at the time.
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UPDATE: 2 REPLIES FROM COUNCIL RE FROME RD/TURNPIKE LANE COMPLAINT. I scanned them quickly - if there's anything you think I should respond to/challenge - tell me.
1. no bin whilst trial on. not sure what to be gained by follow up re Frome at this point. but I think those of us who pass it everyday shd post pics @Veolia/report via fixmystreet or haringeyapp every time - no let up. when we get to hear results of trial we can follow up? I can definitely pic/tweet daily (mon - thurs) if more of us doing that on same day - it also shows how long the piles are left ...
2. re the arcade (I had never thought of it as anything so glam as 'arcade'!) - I will ask for clarification on definition of 'deep clean'. when it was done? when it'll be done again? 'cause its full of pigeon poo now.
3. great to focus our energies on planning, discussing, organising, looking at other priority areas etc.
4. people who suggested other online gathering places so we can put our ideas down and discuss them - that would be great - we cd try and draw some more people in to the discussion. if 'someone who knows about these things' sets something up online - I am happy to go and talk to some shops who were a bit supportive (to my face) around TP lane to ask them to join in the debate. id don't know any councillors/anyone influential. was trying to find well known peeps who use TP tube - but only came up with the fact it mentioned once in a song by Razorlite!
5. westbury meet up - yes please. Fab that they are opening soon! will tweet them to say we planning to get together there because they supported us early on. is that ok? best after we have gathered some ideas online?
6. I am so glad that there are (more than) a few of us who feel similarly - (even Alan who depressed me at first and then cheered me up again! - thanks for that and all the useful info) ... looking forward to planning, discussing more, finding a place for discussing online, pooling and improving ideas - and at some point meeting
COUNCIL REPONSES BELOW (X 2)
From: Ellick Brian a href="mailto:Brian.Ellick@haringey.gov.uk">Brian.Ellick@haringey.gov.uk>
Date: 1 October 2014 14:42:50 BST
To: Cllr Mallett Antonia a href="mailto:Antonia.Mallett@haringey.gov.uk">Antonia.Mallett@haringey.gov.uk>
Cc: "jackie.chambers@me.com" a href="mailto:jackie.chambers@me.com">jackie.chambers@me.com>, Neighbourhood Action a href="mailto:NeighbourhoodAction@haringey.gov.uk">NeighbourhoodAction@haringey.gov.uk>, Frontline a href="mailto:Frontline@haringey.gov.uk">Frontline@haringey.gov.uk>, Baker Richard a href="mailto:Richard.Baker@haringey.gov.uk">Richard.Baker@haringey.gov.uk>
Subject: Re: Jackie Chambers and Jean-Michel Duffrene, 159 Boundary Road, N22 6AR RE: Street Cleaning Our Reference Number: LBH/3499414Dear Councillor Mallett
Your enquiry about Boundary Road, N22 Street Cleaning / Alleyway between Westbury Avenue and Langham Road
We have recently received other emails raising the same / similar issues. Some of the issues raised have already received a response. Therefore I have included those responses as they address some of the issues that have were previously raised.
Street cleaning and maybe the need for more bins around Turnpike Lane Station
Veolia are currently undertaking a drop box container trial scheme to temporarily store purple sweeper bags before collection. The trial is being carried out in High Road, N22 between Turnpike Lane tube station and Wood green tube station and High Road N17. Veolia are also reviewing their sweeper bag collection points, their processes for collecting sweeper bags and other management processes associated with this area of their work.
The purpose of the trial is to explore alternative methods for temporarily storing purple sweepers bags awaiting collection from the public highway. The idea is to store the sweeper bags in a suitable container that is less detrimental on the local amenity and also provides adequate protection from interference by foxes / vermin etc. At the end of the trial we will look at what worked well, what didn’t work and what can be improved, including what other options should be considered in order to find a suitable solution. Once a suitable solution has been agreed we aim to roll the scheme out to other areas within the borough.
We are also reviewing the morning & evening waste put out and collection times in roads that already have established timed collections. We will be asking flats above shops and businesses to participate in the trial scheme. The scheme is aimed at reducing the amount of time waste is stored on the street prior to collection. Both these trials commence in October and will run for approximately three months. Officers from Veolia and the Neighbourhood Action Team will work together to provide residents and businesses affected by the time changes with information about the trial. Signage will also be erected in the roads to inform residents and businesses about the time change
Part of the trial will also identify where enforcement action may be required to ensure residents and businesses comply with regulations that govern how they store and dispose of their domestic and commercial waste.
Officers from the Neighbourhood Action Team will be monitoring Veolia’s cleansing and waste collection performance during the trial period. At the end of the trial the information gathered will be used to establish better working practices and processes for Veolia’s cleansing and waste collection service.
I understand the issues you have highlighted are frustrating, however the trial scheme currently being undertaken is aimed at finding solutions to the problems.
At the moment we are only placing the drop box containers within the locations outlined above, this is to ensure the areas identified for the trial are manageable. I will however ask the area Neighbourhood Action Officer to monitor and action appropriately the waste issues you have highlighted in Frome Road junction With Westbury venue.
Alleyway between Westbury Avenue and Langham Road – Although this is in private ownership, I was given to understand that improvements were to be made to this to coincide with the Wood Green Major Works. I have also had complaints of people cycling through this, which is unacceptable and it would be good if something could be done to prevent it.
We have been progressing well with our proposals for the “Westbury Arcade” (the alleyway within Langham Road) with the freeholder.
At present we have requested the freeholder to undertake initial maintenance works within the arcade, which included removal of redundant pigeon proofing, removal of the damaged roofing and a deep clean. These works have (NOTE FORM JC: I DONT THINK THERE HAS BEEN A DEEP CLEAN. IF THERE HAS - IT IS NOT CLEAN NOW ESP BECAUSE THERE IS NO PIGEON PROOFING) been undertaken and we are presently agreeing costs for new pigeon proofing, new electrical connections and a new transparent roof. Once costs are agreed, the works will be implemented toward the end of Spring 2014. The final elements of the arcade proposals are to implement new architectural lighting and a “terrazzo” flooring (a polished high quality flooring material). These elements will be programmed to be implemented later within the scheme works programme.
The above elements are proposals specifically for the arcade, but the wider area in the vicinity of the Turnpike Lane tube will receive significant improvement as outlined within the recent statutory notification document, link below (page 12):
Regarding cycling, the only measure that will deter cycling through the arcade is bollards, which will also impede pedestrians and create street clutter, therefore we have not specified any physical deflection at this location.
http://www.haringey.gov.uk/statutory_notification_and_scheme_overvi...
Also there is an allegation of drug use in this poorly lit alleyway, so I have copied the local SNT in to this email.
This has been passed onto the local Safer Neighbourhood Team for their attention and action
I hope that you are satisfied with my response to your enquiry. If you have any follow-up queries or need more information, please contact the Feedback and Information Governance Team in the first instance.
Yours sincerely,
Brian Ellick
Team Leader
Neighbourhood Action Team
Haringey Council
3rd floor, 48 Station Road London N22 7TY
T. 020 8489 8237
twitter@haringeycouncil
AND
From: Ellick Brian a href="mailto:Brian.Ellick@haringey.gov.uk">Brian.Ellick@haringey.gov.uk>
Date: 1 October 2014 13:21:25 BST
To: Cllr Mallett Antonia a href="mailto:Antonia.Mallett@haringey.gov.uk">Antonia.Mallett@haringey.gov.uk>
Cc: Neighbourhood Action a href="mailto:NeighbourhoodAction@haringey.gov.uk">NeighbourhoodAction@haringey.gov.uk>, Baker Richard a href="mailto:Richard.Baker@haringey.gov.uk">Richard.Baker@haringey.gov.uk>, Frontline a href="mailto:Frontline@haringey.gov.uk">Frontline@haringey.gov.uk>, "jackie.chambers@me.com" a href="mailto:jackie.chambers@me.com">jackie.chambers@me.com>, Cllr McNamara Stuart a href="mailto:Stuart.McNamara@haringey.gov.uk">Stuart.McNamara@haringey.gov.uk>, MemberEnquiries a href="mailto:s-MemberEnquiries@haringey.gov.uk">s-MemberEnquiries@haringey.gov.uk>
Subject: RE: Jackie Chambers - Request for a bin at junction Frome Road/Westbury AvenueLBH/3534214Dear Councillor Mallet,
Thank you for your email
Veolia are currently undertaking a drop box container trial scheme to temporarily store purple sweeper bags before collection. The trial is being carried out in High Road, N22 between Turnpike Lane tube station and Wood green tube station and High Road N17. Veolia are also reviewing their sweeper bag collection points, their processes for collecting sweeper bags and other management processes associated with this area of their work.
The purpose of the trial is to explore alternative methods for temporarily storing purple sweepers bags awaiting collection from the public highway. The idea is to store the sweeper bags in a suitable container that is less detrimental on the local amenity and also provides adequate protection from interference by foxes / vermin etc. At the end of the trial we will look at what worked well, what didn’t work and what can be improved, including what other options should be considered in order to find a suitable solution. Once a suitable solution has been agreed we aim to roll the scheme out to other areas within the borough.
We are also reviewing the morning & evening waste put out and collection times in roads that already have established timed collections. We will be asking flats above shops and businesses to participate in the trial scheme. The scheme is aimed at reducing the amount of time waste is stored on the street prior to collection. Both these trials commence in October and will run for approximately three months. Officers from Veolia and the Neighbourhood Action Team will work together to provide residents and businesses affected by the time changes with information about the trial. Signage will also be erected in the roads to inform residents and businesses about the time change
Part of the trial will also identify where enforcement action may be required to ensure residents and businesses comply with regulations that govern how they store and dispose of their domestic and commercial waste.
Officers from the Neighbourhood Action Team will be monitoring Veolia’s cleansing and waste collection performance during the trial period. At the end of the trial the information gathered will be used to establish better working practices and processes for Veolia’s cleansing and waste collection service.
I understand the issues you have highlighted are frustrating, however the trial scheme currently being undertaken is aimed at finding solutions to the problems.
At the moment we are only placing the drop box containers within the locations outlined above, this is to ensure the areas identified for the trial are manageable. I will however ask the area Neighbourhood Action Officer to monitor and action appropriately the waste issues you have highlighted in Frome Road junction With Westbury venue.
Regards
Brian Ellick
Team Leader
Neighbourhood Action Team
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reply sent (if I am posting too much detail - do tell me please ... )
Dear Mr Ellick
Thanks for your response. It must've taken some time and i appreciate. I am really glad to hear about the bin trial - and plans for improving the area around TP Lane Station. I realise we have to be patient. A couple of follow up points:
1. Westbury Arcade - i haven't seen evidence of a 'deep clean' by the owner. What date did they do it? Removing the pigeon poo protection means its now pretty covered in poo. How do you verify that the owner carried out the deep clean as required?
2. Works were due to be implemented by end spring 2014. Its now end summer 2014. They haven't been done - What's the new timescale?
3. Final elements/lighting (great - much needed) and flooring. Implemented later within the scheme works programme. What does this actually mean? When? Is budget approved and available?
4. FROME RD: i appreciate there's a trial but people have been complaining about this spot for a very long time now. I have noticed things have been a little better recently - but it is still a big problem and a blight on the area. Not good for business/the local economy and encouraged more dumping. We have asked Veolia to give it some attention and i hope they will continue to do so.
But pressure needs to be put on the local businesses and that cd be done sooner?
5. There has been a convergence of people on twitter #haringeyrubbish and HarringayOnline - Forum (i am @itsafaff). The discussion currently has 50 replies. People are v fed up about waste mgmt in the borough. We are organising and wd like to do something to improve this. We wd appreciate yr contribution to the discussion which is - for now - via HoL.
Yours sincerely
Jackie Chambers
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