Harringay, Haringey - So Good they Spelt it Twice!

The Hell that is Wood Green

Yesterday, I had the misfortune to find myself in the shopping mall. Walking out the big automatic doors and into the crowd of Star Wars pub extras who were smoking, spitting and squabbling on the footpath I witnessed what for me sums up the whole carbuncle on the arse of Haringey that is Wood Green High Road. One of the characters stormed through the crowd with his status dog in tow. I was reflecting on the fact that ‘status’ dogs don't seem to work (as the people who have them only ever seem to be what everyone else in society would consider low status). Everything suddenly went quiet except the ever present sirens. The status dog had stopped and released its copious bowels all over the footpath. It was like turning on the light in an HMO; the cockroaches screamed and scattered. The dog owner laughed and walked on. It was probably one of the most disgusting things I have seen or smelt in London. Eventually the crowd returned and watched the next horde trample the mess up and down the road. There was no-one to turn to, no-one to clean up and more importantly no-one with the authority to challenge and/or shoot the dog owner. Things just returned to normal.

The whole experience made me think how the council, local police and traders believe that we're all animals if they are happy for us to have to deal with this every time we go to the High Road. It's easy enough for me to hop on a bus and head off to Crouch End or Islington or even Enfield to shop but if you're older or disabled and have trouble getting around or not enough money for the bus it must be pretty grim to face it every day. Imagine how the standard little old lady dreads heading out into the crowds, litter, phlegm, smoke and anti-social behaviour of Wood Green every morning to get the milk.

Short of manning water cannons at each end of the High Road and employing some mercenaries with batons to control the crowds, I don’t know what can be done. Are there any clever ‘nudges’ or interventions that could improve Wood Green? Is it a matter of tarting the place up and hoping that the crowds respect their new surroundings? Is it signage to remind, and in many instances educate, people that spitting, littering and barging into other people is just not the done thing? Or do we just give up, bulldoze the lot and install a waterhole in the middle and let the law of the jungle and the status dog owners prevail?

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Permalink Reply by SarahC on April 21, 2014 at 20:47

Well, it does flow gently through Lordship Rec, which is also Haringey.

What's the problem with the railway line, though? I live in a block of flats built on the same former railway line. Am I closer to hell by doing so?

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Permalink Reply by Clive Carter on April 21, 2014 at 17:12

THIS history is helpful and interesting Straw Cat.

It puts "regeneration" within the Borough into a longer-run, historical perspective. Some of the chronic difficulties seem to stem from the forced amalgamation of three Boroughs into a single entity in 1965. From that point forward, for some reason, ambition seemed to vault ahead of ability.

I note the further evidence of a common thread between the Shopping City and the rebuilding of AP after the 1980 fire. In today's money, both were multi-ten-million pound projects.

The wonderful-sounding Village in the Sky could have appeared in a forerunner of Haringey People magazine. Such vision would now be said to 'secure the future'.

Our best guide to the future is the past. The ingredients are in place. Now its time for Tottenham's turn for regeneration (via Cannes).

Disclosure:
am a prospective councillor candidate
Highgate Ward | Liberal Democrat Party

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Permalink Reply by Cllr Emina Ibrahim on April 21, 2014 at 18:25

Hi Strawcat

The river Moselle was culverted way before the shopping city and the village in the sky, Sky City is the estate you are referring to. The river was in fact culverted during the construction of the Noel Park Estate in the early 1900's I believe. I have been inside and seen Sky City and its not uncommon to have housing complexes above shopping areas we can see it with Watney Market in Tower Hamlets. I think it represents a particular idea of Town planning that now looks dated but was very much of its time.

Clive - I am unsure how long you have lived in Haringey so won't make assumptions however I grew up in Wood Green came here when I was very young and I find your incessant desire to unconstructively do my home down rather disappointing considering you are standing to become a councillor. I think that young people in the borough are sick and tired of hearing this negativity about their home and it's really demoralising. I think the common thread going through this discussion is however a genuine desire for people to see respect from others for the environment and shared spaces. This cuts across class and mutual respect comes from fostering understanding of basic things we expect from each other. What people in Haringey (whether it's Wood Green or Harringay) want is a sense of pride in their community and a civic identity which isn't about what an awful place it is. My parents moved to Charlton from Frobisher Rd the year I was born and in the early 80's I remember the National Front marches. My mum would make sure me and my sister were not playing out when they were on our estate recruiting and canvassing. When we came back here first to Finsbury Park and then Wood Green - to be honest me and my older sister thought we had arrived in utopia not hell! and that was with the backdrop of the Broadwater farm riots. Of course we were kids and naive but there really is great things about the area. I don't think anyone could have described the real spirit of the area better than Liz did.

Emine
Labour Party Candidate (Harringay Ward)!

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Permalink Reply by Abi on April 21, 2014 at 20:59

The 'hell' that is Wood Green is part of its charm. My friends and I particularly like going to see zombie movies at the Cineworld, because there is just something so thoroughly dystopian about it. You can imagine the undead rising from those arcade machines. I'm not even joking...

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Permalink Reply by Cllr Emina Ibrahim on April 21, 2014 at 21:28

Cinema's have actually improved in Wood Green! Prior to the Cineworld and Vue there was the Coronet at Turnpike Lane next to the old bus station. I think it was also called the ABC at some point. The queues on Saturdays were so long but it was absolutely filthy! and you were lucky to leave without itching all over and needing a tetanus jab :)

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Permalink Reply by Pat on April 22, 2014 at 0:15

Yes, it was the ABC, I remember when smoking in the cinema was still allowed, the place was thick with smoke.

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Permalink Reply by Michael Anderson on April 22, 2014 at 6:43

For me, the argument seems to boil down to one thing Sharon posted. "I don't like bad manners either but can tolerate them". I can't.
My Mam and Dad brought me and my siblings up to be polite and considerate and to expect the same from others. That's why I dislike bad manners like taking up an extra seat on a packed out bus with Primark bags in Wood Green or Gucci bags in Kings Road, people shouting into their mobiles about what Poppy said to Cookie, not saying please and thank you to a member of staff in McDonalds or thinking it's ok to be rude to a waiter in Le Pain Quotidien.
Good manners are not the monopoly of any social class and neither are bad ones.
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Permalink Reply by Clive Carter on April 22, 2014 at 7:16

Good morning Michael:

Well put Mr Anderson!

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Permalink Reply by Sharon on April 22, 2014 at 8:59

Quite right Michael, I should've added that I can tolerate others manners because I was brought up to be polite enough to do so, also, something to bear in mind as Alan pointed out somewhere on the thread, Manners are not universal, they differ greatly from culture to culture, family to family. One persons shaking the head is another person's nodding.

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Permalink Reply by Michael Anderson on April 22, 2014 at 9:32

You're right of course Sharon, that manners vary from culture to culture, but when I go abroad I try to find out in advance how to behave. If I'm in France and don't say Bon Jour as I enter a shop I thinks it's quite understandable that the shopkeeper gives me a look of distain.
Here I think that the worst behaviour seems to manifest itself in Londoners born and bred. Probably why they always come top in people's perceptions of the rudest and and most unfriendly people in the country.