Harringay, Haringey - So Good they Spelt it Twice!
The Hell that is Wood Green
Yesterday, I had the misfortune to find myself in the shopping mall. Walking out the big automatic doors and into the crowd of Star Wars pub extras who were smoking, spitting and squabbling on the footpath I witnessed what for me sums up the whole carbuncle on the arse of Haringey that is Wood Green High Road. One of the characters stormed through the crowd with his status dog in tow. I was reflecting on the fact that ‘status’ dogs don't seem to work (as the people who have them only ever seem to be what everyone else in society would consider low status). Everything suddenly went quiet except the ever present sirens. The status dog had stopped and released its copious bowels all over the footpath. It was like turning on the light in an HMO; the cockroaches screamed and scattered. The dog owner laughed and walked on. It was probably one of the most disgusting things I have seen or smelt in London. Eventually the crowd returned and watched the next horde trample the mess up and down the road. There was no-one to turn to, no-one to clean up and more importantly no-one with the authority to challenge and/or shoot the dog owner. Things just returned to normal.
The whole experience made me think how the council, local police and traders believe that we're all animals if they are happy for us to have to deal with this every time we go to the High Road. It's easy enough for me to hop on a bus and head off to Crouch End or Islington or even Enfield to shop but if you're older or disabled and have trouble getting around or not enough money for the bus it must be pretty grim to face it every day. Imagine how the standard little old lady dreads heading out into the crowds, litter, phlegm, smoke and anti-social behaviour of Wood Green every morning to get the milk.
Short of manning water cannons at each end of the High Road and employing some mercenaries with batons to control the crowds, I don’t know what can be done. Are there any clever ‘nudges’ or interventions that could improve Wood Green? Is it a matter of tarting the place up and hoping that the crowds respect their new surroundings? Is it signage to remind, and in many instances educate, people that spitting, littering and barging into other people is just not the done thing? Or do we just give up, bulldoze the lot and install a waterhole in the middle and let the law of the jungle and the status dog owners prevail?
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Alan Stanton on
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The Paramount is our local favourite too. A family owned business with Mo as a host who remembers regulars and genuinely likes them. The only catch, that it's so popular (for takeaway as well) that service can sometimes be a bit slow.
Newest member of our family at the Paramount. Granddaughter Cassie. Likes: pilau rice, sliced cucumber and tomato; onion bhaji.
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Permalink Reply by Takaokagiejin on
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Permalink Reply by Dave on
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Don't pack heat Osbawn. The dogs will chew your arm off :) Take your didgeridoo along instead and wow the locals ... bit of cultcha. They might even throw you some coins for your latte trouble. But seriously, until they merge this borough with either Islington or Camden, WG and all that surrounds is going nowhere.
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Permalink Reply by Cecilia on
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I don't quite get the comments about "middle class people" moving from Muswell Hill TBH. I guess we would fall into that category for some of you, despite not regarding ourselves as middle class at all (but then again this is something only the Brist are concerned obsessed about, as TBD rightly said, I come from a country where class divisions do not exist and you can get good education despite coming from a non-middle class background, etc. etc.). We were priced out of Muswell Hill and took a leap of faith and moved to the east side of the borough. Does that make us horrible people, especially as we also have a view of Ally Pally from our window? And yes, we have brought our values and sense of respect for the public good down this way - what's wrong with that? Is it bad wanting to make the area we have chosen to live in a better place?
And having said that - in the 3 years we spent in Muswell Hill we didn't see any (or very little) public money spent on improving the area, whereas this side of the borough seems to be constantly receiving funding for improving, master planning, regenerating, etc etc. Positive discrimination, someone might argue!
Oh and edit to add that we after nearly 3 years of doing our weekly shopping in Morrisons in Wood Green we decided to start getting the shopping delivered - not having to go through that ordeal has significantly improved our quality of life!
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Permalink Reply by Liz on
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Not doing weekly shopping in ANY supermarket anywhere will significantly improve your life.
I have a monthly delivery of stuff I can't be arsed to drag home from the shops like toilet rolls, tins of baked beans and other boring but essential items, a veg box delivery for weird and wonderful veg and then "empty my wallet" as my daughter so charmingly put it in the local shops and at the market.
I am forced into a large supermarket only when I can see no alternative although I do pop into Tesco's on Salisbury Parade for odds and ends.
I do raise an eyebrow at the suggestion that there are NO class divisions in Italy or France. You may not talk about them endlessly as we do, usually with our tongue firmly in our cheek, but I can't remember either country being an egalitarian paradise last time I was in them. In fact, I rather admire their willingness to take to the streets to protest the fact that they are not.
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Liz - Italy is by no means an egalitarian paradise (ever heard of Berlusconi, anyone?). The differences between people though, those of the kind that make students and ordinary people take to the streets and that the British newspapers pick on, are NOT based on class divisions but on political ideas. The concept of "class division" is something that we are not as obsessed about as the Brits, and that is a fact. It is also a fact that your whole entire life is not marked by growing in a certain postcode or by going to a certain school rather than another. Even if you are from what the Brits would describe as a "working class" background, you can still go to excellent schools and have access to the best universities (which is what I did, incidentally!). There are historical reasons for this that date back to the fascism era (yes, would you believe that?), which I am not going into now. And yes - there has been a time in which the "classe operaia" was more prominent and identifiable (the 60s and the 70s - and even then, what people clashed on were political differences, look up things like the Brigate Rosse and the so-called "anni di piombo"), but nowadays the boundaries are more blurred.
The beauty of living in a different country is that you start to look at your own country, and the society you come from, with different, more objective eyes.
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My comment about a few appalling people from Muswell Hill temporarily taking over tall buildings and having a view of Ally Pally, was intended to carry a political slant a few people may have missed.
About the supposed lack of funds going to the west, you might want to keep an eye out for East/West comparisons in things such as upkeep of street planters and small areas of public spaces. The junction of Palace Gates Road and Crescent Road is one which sticks in my mind.
I suggest that the next time you're in Tottenham watch out for small details such as broken street "furniture" - seats, low fencing, etc. And ask yourself how quickly that would be repaired - or perhaps not? - in Crouch End or Muswell Hill.
There's a wider issue which I'd suggest more tentatively and that's the likelihood of what we might call "shunting" of funds. So if there was external funding of say, new street lighting in an area of Tottenham, then clearly for the period of renewal there was more budgeted money available for street lighting elsewhere in the borough.
Discussion of any of this is plagued by the various visible and less visible elephants in Haringey's room; issues of gender, class, race ethnicity and religion. I imagine that even my raising this could provoke howls of protest. Yet these appear to be not quite hidden subtexts in parts of this thread.
I'm curious about your country of origin "where class divisions do not exist". I wasn't aware there was any such place. No pecking order then?
(Tottenham Hale ward councillor. Epsilon caste)
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This comment piece in the Ham & High suggests otherwise
COMMENT: Idea of ‘rich west and deprived east’ in Haringey is dange...
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Permalink Reply by John McMullan on
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Yeah but it carries about as much weight as one of my comments.
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Mmm. I read this piece. Nice piece of secessionist polemic. With which I couldn't agree less.
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Joe and Claire run the council and I bet they attend twice as many local events where they live in Muswell Hill than where their electorate is in Seven Sisters. Actually that is unfair, perhaps like me they are just not cool enough to get invites to those parties.
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Permalink Reply by Clive Carter on
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broken street "furniture" - seats, low fencing, etc. And ask yourself how quickly that would be repaired - or perhaps not? - in Crouch End or Muswell Hill.
Alan, there's no need to ponder: I can give you an example. Several months ago and using the council's website, I reported that there was a broken fence in The Park in Highgate (opposite Bishops Road).
Weeks later, when it hadn't been repaired, I reported it again to the council via the Fix My Street website.
Last week, not only has it not been repaired, a section of fence has now fallen over. I understand that Streets say its Park's responsiblity. Since it lies on the edge of a council estate (Hillcrest) perhaps the council views it as a low priority.
This doesn't encourage one to report problems.
Disclosure:
am a prospective councillor candidate
Highgate Ward | Liberal Democrat Party
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