Harringay, Haringey - So Good they Spelt it Twice!
Endymion Road Zebra Crossing
Does something need to be done before there is a serious accident or a death?
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Alan Stanton on
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I've now had a reply to my formal Enquiry as a councillor. Mr Tony Kennedy who wrote to me has, to his credit, actually read the comments on this thread. Also, to be fair to Mr Kennedy, he doesn't set the budget.
Here's what I wrote and his reply.
----- Original Message -----From: Alan Stanton, Tottenham Hale ward councillor
Sent: 28 August 2013 00:33
Subject: Hazardous Zebra Crossing in Endymion Road N4.Member Enquiry
Can I please ask you to arrange for someone to read the discussion thread on Harringay Online Community website regarding residents' observations of the dangers on the zebra crossing in Endymion Road N4 near the park entrance. Here's the link.
Can you please report back the outcome of your assessment to the three Harringay ward councillors. And most important, on the website so that residents can see the outcome of their raising concerns and suggestions.
Thanks.
----- Original Message -----
From: Tony Kennedy, Suatainable Transport Group
To: Cllr Alan Stanton
Cc: Harringay ward councillor [and other named council staff]
Sent: Wednesday, September 11, 2013 5:20 PM
Subject: Advice please: Hazardous Zebra Crossing in Endymion Road N4.Dear Councillor Stanton
Thank you for your enquiry regarding the discussion thread on Haringey Online about the perceived dangers on the zebra crossing in Endymion Road near the park entrance. I have copied the ward councillors into my response and I am happy for you to post the response online.
I confirm that I have read the comments posted by residents; We have received similar correspondence in recent years from the ward councillors and residents. I sympathise with their concerns and can assure you that we regard road safety, particularly pedestrian and cyclists safety, as a high priority. The main concerns would appear to be speeding and motorists not observing the crossing. As you will be aware, we are currently out to consultation seeking views for the possible introduction of a default borough-wide 20mph limit. The consultation commenced in August 2013 and will run until the end of October with a report being presented to the December Cabinet. Should this proposal progress to implementation, we will consider locations for complimentary traffic calming measures where speeds may remain high. The most recent speed survey conducted on Endymion Road, east of Coningsby Road, indicated the 85th percentile speed to be 29mph.
Our 2013/14 Sustainable Transport Works Plan, which was approved by Cabinet in June 2013 and provides details of all our funding allocations and schemes, does not unfortunately include funding provision for me to investigate Endymion Road further at the present time. I can however report that the latest 36 months collision data in the vicinity of the Zebra crossing show that there have been 2 recorded slight personal injury accidents, none of the accidents involved pedestrians.
Yours sincerely,
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Permalink Reply by Gordon T on
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I took these two pictures of the zebra crossing Belisha beacons and poles today, and will send them to the Project Engineer asking for their assessment.
. The poles are in poor condition, nowhere near the white-and-black stripes required for good visibility by road users. Also, one of the beacons is dirty and faded. Will post any reply.
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Which begs the question of whether anyone from "Sustainable Transport" actually went to look at the crossing. If they did they'd have seen what you photographed and at the very least arranged for the beacons to be cleaned. Not very "sustainable" are they?
I also wonder whether the rings of LED lights which John_D suggested would give significantly more visibility? And if so how much that would cost? Presumably far far less than upgrading the crossing. My impression is that they reduce light pollution.
Unless you'd like to ask these questions, Gordon, I'll do so.
(Tottenham Hale ward councillor till 22 May 2014)
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Permalink Reply by Karen Alexander on
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I've just seen this thread. I have had a good deal of correspondence with highways about Endymion Road speeding issues, the zebra crossing and the potential deadly (for pedestrians) mini round about at the junction with Alroy Road. Always the same response from the council, no funding available for now. I will continue to campaign for the council to find funding and it certainly does have other funding streams because we have discussed these in relation to our campaign to get a crossing at the junction with Alroy Road but there seems to be no political will to do anything for this section Harringay. My worry is that it will take a very serious accident to change that.
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Well I've saved them the trip, Alan! The white paint simply isn't there to be cleaned up, it's a repaint job.
Pictures, and this text below, now sent to the project engineer and a colleague.
Subject: [LBH reference] Endymion Road zebra crossing: poor condition of poles and beacon
Here are two pictures of the north-side pole and beacon taken yesterday: the pole is in poor condition, nothing like the pure-white-and-black stripes required for good visibility by approaching road users. Also, the beacon itself is dirty and faded. The south-side pole is similarly poor, the beacon somewhat better. What is your assessment, please? Can the poles be repainted, or a reflective-white-and-black wrap applied, as there is on other Haringey zebra crossings? Can the beacon be replaced by a properly yellow one? Thank you for your attention to this matter.
Karen, at the moment getting the existing equipment back to a fit state is the target, given how poor its condition - and that should count as maintenance, not a budgeted (or not) upgrade.
I agree that future improvements like LED heads on the beacons, or replacement poles with directly-overhead lighting (as on the zebra crossings on St Ann's Road), or a Puffin crossing, would be desirable: but first things first!
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Permalink Reply by Madeline on
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I think that a view (or not) of the crossing from a drivers perspective would highlight the dangers of this crossing.
Personally I think it's in the right place for that particular stretch of road, on the apex of the bend so not obscured by the corner from either direction. It's the vehicles that for me obscure the pedestrians who may be waiting or actually crossing, especially if they're in a traffic jam.
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I'm doing that in a few minutes, Gordon.
There's a story about Taiichi Ohno, sometimes called the "father" of the Toyota Production System. A group of visitors taken to meet him on the production line, asked why he hadn't met them in his office. He explained: "We don't make cars in my office."
I've not yet found out about the Nick Walkley plan for restructuring the council; including who is in the VIP Departure Lounge. But one test of whether it works or not is how far Haringey (and Veolia) senior and middle-range staff find some time to go out with frontline staff and actually observe what's in front of them on the street.
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Toyota system, i.e. take the decision as close as possible to the action - I know it. That's why I sent the pictures and email as the most effective substitute, short of going round there and banging on the door.
So I've brought Haringey's attention to the 'refreshment' issue, at least - and they, today, have acknowledged my email and given me a date by which to respond. I will report their reply, by their given date of the 27th.
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I have also followed this up with the council - I too will report back when I have a response.
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Apologies to Karen, I thought I'd copied you, Gina and David into my emails. Also, an apology to Gordon T. My promised email to Mr Kennedy on the LED light rings was delayed. Now sent.
From: Alan Stanton, Tottenham Hale ward councillor
To: Tony Kennedy, Environment Department
Cc: Harringay councillors, Haringey Environment Department staff
Sent: Sunday, September 15, 2013 3:53 PM
Subject: Hazardous Zebra Crossing in Endymion Road N4.My thanks for your reply. I hope you've also seen the update in this discussion thread on Harringay Online.
If not, you will find recent photos posted by "GordonT" which show one of the black and white poles supporting the belisha beacons has lost much of the white paint. As GordonT points out, this means the distinctive stripes which help to warn motorists are not present.
I have to say that I find it dismaying this was not spotted by one of your team on their site visit. Had it been, I'm sure you would have mentioned it and the action you were taking to rectify the problem. As well as arranging for removal of the dirt from one of the yellow belisha beacons mentioned by GordonT. Perhaps a few pounds out of the £6 million profit Haringey is making on the Parking Account could be used to get at least these basics right?
GordonT repeats a suggestion made earlier in the same thread that replacing the globes by rings of LED lights would have greater visibility to drivers. I assume this would also reduce light pollution as more of the light is directed towards approaching vehicles. Having looked at some manufacturers' websites, they claim LED lights consume less power. In any case, I assume this option would not cost anything like as much as upgrading the crossing.
Thanks for your help.
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Excellent news on this crossing and congratulations to Cllr Karen Alexander for chasing this up; getting someone from Haringey's Highways Team actually visiting; and for a sensible outcome.
It would have been gracious if Mr Kennedy had also mentioned Gordon T's helpful photos and the other residents who posted observations and constructive suggestions in this thread. I'm sure that some Haringey staff and a couple of councillors have heard of the concept of "co-production". (As applied for example by the New Economics Foundation NEF to public services.)
Another useful concept here is John Seddon's term:"failure demand" based on Systems Thinking. Seddon uses it to refer the waste caused by repeated demand for a service when the systems within an organisation fail to respond efficiently and effectively the first time round; often by failing to understand and learn about the problem. This causes unnecessary delay and wastes everyone's time and effort. And of course it costs money.
----- Original Message -----
From: Tony Kennedy, Group Manager, Sustainable Transport
To: Cllr Karen Alexander
Cc: [Environment Services staff]; Cllr Alan Stanton
Sent: Tuesday, September 24, 2013 10:46 AM
Subject: Enquiry LBH/2198613 Endymion Road Crossing N4Dear Councillor Alexander
Thank you for your enquiry regarding the recent correspondence with Cllr Stanton.
Our Street Lighting Officer has inspected the crossing and confirmed that the Belisha Beacons would benefit from replacement. An order has therefore been placed with our contractor for two new Belisha Beacon posts and two new Amber Beacon Bowls with LED lamps. This work will be completed by the 16 October.
Yours sincerely,
Tony Kennedy
Group Manager, Sustainable Transport----- Original Message -----
From: Cllr Alexander Karen
Sent: 15 September 2013 14:38
To: Members Enquiries; Kennedy Tony
Subject: Endymion Road Crossing N4Dear Tony
I understand that you have been in correspondence with Cllr Stanton in regard to the issues around the pedestrian crossing on Endymion Road.
We have also corresponded on these issues in the past and I note your response to Cllr Stanton (below).
Can I please request that at the very least the crossing is made fit for purpose. There are issues with visibility and these are in part due to the poor physical condition of the poles and crossing. Can you please consider some upgrading please, or at least repaint the poles.
Endymion Road and the issue of crossing at Alroy Road present two very dangerous areas in a very short stretch of road for residents to negotiate safely. It is absolutely vital that funds are allocated to these two areas in the next funding period before there is a very serious accident.
I look forward to your response.
Regards
Karen J Alexander
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