Harringay, Haringey - So Good they Spelt it Twice!
More peaceful skies? - cheap flights boom over, says BA chief as oil hits new high
Following the recent peaceful skies! discussion, The Guardian points out today that flying may be just about to get .... That may mean even more peaceful skies Sophie.
Tags for Forum Posts: aircraft noise, flight paths, flights, planes
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Liz on
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Okay to be serious for a minute, many of the cheap tickets are offered at times when it is simply not practical to fly with children e.g. late at night/very early in the morning. School holidays send the prices rocketing up as do weekends, so actually finding a cheap ticket can be difficult for a family who want to give the rest of the plane a break and not bundle two knackered children onto a 9 pm flight. Secondly, baggage allowance is 15 kg per person and must be paid for, sounds a lot but babies and children need a alot of extras. It cost us 32 pounds on top of the ticket for two bags (and lets just say that Mum and Dad didn't exactly have a wide variety of clothing to wear en vacances) and you pay very much extra if you even go over by a kilo, hence all the repacking often witnessed at check in and the enormous bags some people end up carrying on.
Priority boarding used to be (and on some still is) for elderly and the very young and free. Now, you pay £8 per person or you takes your chances with the able-bodied and hope they are as kindly as you and your better 'alf would be (but of course they are not and often behave like its the gate to heaven not to a plane and St Peter is counting 'em in).
Hit the submit button and pow on come all the taxes and fuel surcharges and suddenly that BA flight is competitive! Mr E spent hours looking for the cheapest possible flight which is why we were flying on a Wednesday in term time (if nipperette was in full time ed, technically truancy)
So basically not so cheap and you feel very much like you'd have had a better time being packed into a box and posted to your destination since most staff on cheap airlines seem to operate a look straight ahead at all times policy except when you are proffering money for nasty sandwiches or scratch cards.
You certainly get what you pay for, which certainly wasn't as cheap as you saw in the advert and, boy, do they let you know it. After all, its a further 8 pounds extra each for a smile and a cheery word .
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Permalink Reply by Eddie Finnegan on
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I took my first plane flight on 5th Sept 1967 at the ripe old age of 24 yrs1week.
Carrier: Aer Lingus. Flight: Dublin to Gatwick (for Sierra Leone Airways link next day.)
My salary (3rd year Hons Graduate Sec.Sch.Tchr): £948 pa./ £79 pcm gross. (Tax @25%)
My 'Irish Times': 5d old money (=2p). A 2lb loaf in 1967: 4d (less than 2p).
Aer Lingus DUB-GTW fare sgl: £132 Econ.class (= 2mths2dys net salary)
British Airways DUB-H'row fare sgl: £132 Econ.class (= 2mths2dys net salary)
Flights staggered throughout day at 2hr intervals: same fare applied constantly.
No, I didn't need the 2lb loaf - Aer Lingus included quite a nice afternoon tea and in return for my 2mths2dys' salary, why wouldn't they?
This morning my 'Irish Times' cost 5d x 48 = £1.00. What does a 1kg loaf cost?
Nothing particularly Irish or British about all that. Wherever the 'National Flag Carrier' set-up reigned, the same cosy cartel arrangement pertained. The BA/Aer Lingus marriage of convenience (theirs not ours) had been going for a decade or more before 1967 and continued for decades afterwards. If it hadn't been for the likes of Frank Ryan and Stelios over at Easyjet these cosy cartels would still rule the skies.
Hugh's right. Liz, Annette, Birdy, Matt - where's that can-do, Rough Guide or even Lonely Planet spirit one should expect on a site such as this? Problem is, I fear, Ryanair has become a sort of generic whipping-boy attracting all the urban or airborne myths and accusations ever made about any budget airline since their inception.
True, the abrasive Michael O'Leary courts that sort of thing. Make a complaint and he'll tell you to f..k off and take your ass to BA, Aer Lingus or whatever, he doesn't need you.
True, Ryanair pick up more complaints in a month than all the "normal" airlines combined. That's because Ryanair fly more routes, more frequent flights, and open up more routes each month than ten others combined. The complaints are rarely about safety or lack of punctuality. Their record on bags lost or not delivered on same flight is far better than BA's, and their bag handling/damage complaints have always been far fewer than Easyjet's.
No Anette, Ryanair is not the worst airline on the planet. I've flown about 65-70 airlines in 41 years, short and longhaul, budget, high-price scheduled and chartered. I'm sure Ryanair comes in the top 10 or 15. For what it does, what it claims to offer, I'd put it in my top 3.
Who needs more than 15kgs + 10kg cabin baggage for a shorthaul week or fortnight? We never wear half of what we haul across Europe. Yes, for anyone slightly taller a little more leg room wouldn't come amiss. And I wish they hadn't got rid of those little netty things for my water bottle.
No, Ryanair will not collapse under higher airfares, though many others will. Willie Walsh of BA may talk up this sort of scenario but that's mainly because he was CEO at Aer Lingus when O'Leary and Ryanair practically pushed them to the wall. When Aer Lingus privatised their shares bombed just as Walsh went over to BA and Ryanair grabbed about 28% of the old rival. So don't fall for everything Willie says. He and Mick hate each other's guts.
True, Ryanair haven't hedged against the rising oil prices. Shares are down 44% on last year. But their aim is to expand new routes to counteract rising oil and falling footfall on existing routes. Last month they flew 5.17million passengers, up 19% from 4.35million in June'07. Seats filled per aircraft were down 1% (85\84%). They'll pull some of their older planes, have slightly fewer flights - but their newer fleet are much more oil-efficient, less carboniferous than most of their rivals. And with 9 new routes started out of their new hub Birmingham last month, I don't see them keeling over and dying anytime soon. They continue to be the most profitable airline in Europe.
No, I'm not related to Michael O'Leary or the late Frank Ryan (that's who the FR in your flight number come
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Some anti-ryanair gremlin got into last paragraph of my previous and left it hanging. Just something to the effect that I'm sure some facts may be useful next time we want to beat up on my charming friend Mick O's lovely airline.
Also that my 1p April flight from Perugia was better value than my 1967 Dublin-Gatwick flight by a factor of 633,600 - allowing for real money values,but ignoring the fact that April's journey was 2.5 times longer than the Sept 1967 one.
But yes Liz, I do agree it's not for everyone. You may say of me, like Macduff of Macbeth after the massacre at Fife, 'He has no bairns.'
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For me flying will always be about getting somewhere because I have limited holiday time and the budget airlines have certainly facilitated that but, Eddie, come the day when the kids would rather paint themselves blue and stand naked in Sainsbury's car park than travel with mum and dad and assuming that I am still mobile then my 'can-do lonely planet' heart will return to my first love which is travelling by train. All the romance and adventure I have ever experienced when actually travelling to my destination have been in trains, be it swilling vodka with the Polish on the trans Siberian, chatting to hunky naval officers in China or crossing a continent with a train from Malaga to Paris. I have a mental list of all the journeys I want to take on five continents, although I may be unlucky with the sleeper train to Scotland (which I saw standing in the station the other day and was aching to get on) and luckily Mr E is with me on this. Value for money? I doubt it. Bringing back my love of getting there as well as arriving. Almost certainly. Orient Express, here I come, all I need is a cocktail frock and pair of sunglasses...
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Permalink Reply by matt on
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Hmm, think we should start a 'travel by train' club. :)
The new journey to Paris is fantastic. Getting a plane to that city from London is pure insanity.
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Permalink Reply by Anette on
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Oh, I don't know Eddie.. I have travelled the world on various airlines, and Ryanais is by far the worst airline I have ever encountered. It's also the only one to fix their scales so that they show a kilo or two more than what your bag actually weights (exposed on BBC, can't remember which show). That explains why my suitcase miraculously gains 2kg on the train from Tottenham Hale to Stansted. Yes, I check the weight before going.
This article backs it up, it's related to Spain, but it begs the question: How do you know the scales are not fauly, and you're not forking out a fortune, not to mention the inconvenience cause because of faulty scales?
http://travel.timesonline.co.uk/tol/life_and_style/travel/news/arti...
I do need more than 15 kilos sometimes when I am travelling, I am often going to a relatively cold country, and wolly jumpers + presents for family and friends does add up. Allowing 15 kilos is just stingy. Ryanair is also the only airline ever to have lost my bag. Even BA have not managed that, but I have been avoiding going through terminal 5 like the plague.
There have also been safety fears linked to Ryanair, as the staff are working dangerously long hours. They're towing the line. This is backed up here:
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/1510211/Ryanair-accused-of-security..., and here: http://www.indymedia.ie/article/74212
Ryanair pretends to be cheap, it's not. It pretends to be relatively cheerful. It's not. It's the world's worst airline. Absolutely no contest.
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