Harringay, Haringey - So Good they Spelt it Twice!
Northern Ladder Traffic Reduction Proposal - council response
I mentioned over on the Northern Ladder Traffic Reduction Proposal discussion that i'd ask the council what they thought, here is the response i've just received:
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Unfortunately at present the proposal to reverse the one-way traffic flow of Falkland Road and to ban vehicles entering/exiting Frobisher Road is not possible. This is because the introduction of these measures may have potential adverse impact on the wider transport network. To understand the impact on the transport network the proposals would need to be considered as part of a more comprehensive technical traffic modelling exercise or temporarily implemented under a temporary traffic order to enable live examination of the impact. The latter is currently being undertaken on Hewit Road as part of the Green Lanes portfolio of schemes, which have allowed this proposal to be included as part of the schemes Statutory Notification process; this is now closed and there is not an available window for further Statutory Notification.
Nevertheless, we will keep this request on file for inclusion in future works programmes subject to securing the required funding.
I hope this has been helpful and please contact me should you require any further information.
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Nick G-T on
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"This is because the introduction of these measures may have potential adverse impact on the wider transport network."
Really? So the council accepts that our Ladder roads are rat runs that hide the true volume of traffic that should be using Green Lanes and Turnpike Lane?
Perhaps an FOI is in order on the traffic modelling on Hewit Road pre-traffic flow reversal (once complete and if the results are not published), if that proposal is given the go ahead. After all, without a Ladder wide examination, the so called live examination is less than "comprehensive" if they are only monitoring one or two roads.
I also wonder if there was a comprehensive technical traffic modelling exercise undertaken on the Gardens road closures and whether this could be obtained under an FOI?
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Permalink Reply by Justin Guest on
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I do not understand why the Hewit/Pemberton/Beresford traffic assessment information can only be seen by all those affected by the 'proposed' scheme as a result of an FoI request.
Before we have a go at the council I should say I have not asked for it, has anyone? Has this information been made available? If not I will and lets see what comes back.
It is slightly unclear how Ant's proposal can only be considered as part of a comprehensive and properly formulated traffic management assessment that is Ladder wide, and the Hewit proposal can happily exist in splendid isolation... Is it not clear that there is a contradiction here?
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To be clear, I suggested an FOI if the results are not voluntarily published by the council. My thinking is it would not be available yet as the assessment will run until the last day before the traffic is re-directed.
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Permalink Reply by ant on
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The council response i pasted in at the start of this discussion ended with "...please contact me should you require any further information", so i have an email address and think we should do that even if just to help understand how to get these type of changes to happen in the future. What was the process for getting the the Gardens bollards and Hermitage road gates and that type of thing, what should we ask?
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Typically disappointing response. Why the resistance to closing roads to rat running? Happy to be told otherwise but I can't see the downside of closing residential streets to traffic passing through. The benefits to residents in terms of danger reduction, less pollution and enhanced local environment would seem to massively outweigh any potential disbenefits.
The reason given that 'the introduction of these measures may have potential adverse impact on the wider transport network' is completely bogus. It's been known since at least the mid-90's, and is recorded in DfT funded reports, that reducing road capacity leads to a reduction in overall traffic volumes. Traffic Impact of Highway Capacity Reductions: Assessment of the Evidence concluded that: 'schemes to reallocate roadspace away from general traffic can help to improve conditions for pedestrians, cyclists or public transport users, without significantly increasing congestion or other related problems'.
It's annoying to see how far behind the curve Haringey are on this issue - you only have to look to Hackney to see how 'filtered permeability' really works for residents over there (http://cycleandwalkhackney.blogspot.co.uk/2013/03/cycling-and-walki...).
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Permalink Reply by Malcolm on
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You're assuming that there is a substantial benefit in terms of danger reduction and pollution reduction.
The first is dubious - according to this http://accidentdatabase.co.uk/accidents/n8+0bs there simply aren't RTAs on the ladder roads - they're all on Wightman and Green lanes.
The second feels equally specious. I live on Hewit, allegedly one of the "busy" roads, and the number of cars coming past simply can't be contributing to a substantial pollution burden.
As for whether reducing road capacity in this area would reduce traffic volumes - I don't know. But if you're proposing a change, the onus must be on showing that there are real benefits other than "well, I don't like traffic".
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The lack of RTAs does not in itself mean a road is safe - it could just mean that people are avoiding exposing themselves to an obvious risk. A better measure (albeit qualitative not quantitative) of the safety of a road would be - are you prepared to let your children out to play unaccompanied?
I just took a look at www.howpollutedismyroad.org.uk and although no data is available for Hewit there is some available for Frobisher. The pollution level is indeed lower than Wightman/Green Lanes, but Frobisher still has over 10,000 vehicles on it every day, which according to the above website 'living near roads travelled by more than 10,000 vehicles per day could be responsible for some 15-30% of all new cases of asthma in children, and a similar proportion of COPD (chronic obstructive pulmonary disease) and CHD (coronary heart disease) cases in adults 65 years of age and older'. Perhaps some would think the benefit to drivers from having access to rat runs is more important than the respiratory health of kids but I would disagree.
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10,000 cars per day? That cannot be right. That is 7 cars per min or even more assuming there is more traffic in the day than at night. I just stood by the passage and counted cars in a random minute 5 minutes ago and 3 cars came by in just over a minute.
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Permalink Reply by Hugh on
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No, that's not been decided. As far as I'm aware the officers are preparing a report following the response to the last published scheme.
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Permalink Reply by John McMullan on
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I note that according to some statistics picked up by the Guardian, the worst pollution on a ladder rung road is on Frobisher. Of course the worst pollution in Harringay is on Wightman which is a disgrace.
Slot in your postcode and zoom in here.
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The link you point to supports neither of those claims:
- Green Lanes has higher traffic pollution than Wightman Road. Both were in Harringay last time I checked
- It looks like Frobisher is the only Ladder road with data - so you can't claim it's got the "worst" pollution
Back to "Interpreting Evidence 101" for you :)
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