Harringay, Haringey - So Good they Spelt it Twice!
Could Haringey Council be persuaded to bring Hackney's pioneering play streets scheme to our roads?
Hackney Council have developed a groundbreaking scheme that will close selected streets to through traffic using Temporary Play Street Orders (TPSOs), which allow parents to apply to the council to close their street for a few hours per week or month. Those who live in play streets can still drive to and from their homes, and will be guided at walking pace by volunteer stewards stationed at each end of the street.
This seems like a wonderful idea to me and one that I'd like to see given a try in Haringey. I'd love to be able to close the streets around our local schools for a few hours on Friday afternoons to let kids hang out and play with their friends for example. We could work out a rota so one Ladder street gets closed every Sunday.
Maybe you have other ideas? Could we reclaim the streets for our youngsters even if only for a few hours a week or month? Would Haringey Council be persuaded to give it a go? If Hackney can do it, so can we!
Source: Hackney Gazette
Tags for Forum Posts: Temporary Play Street Orders
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Julie - WPRNW on
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I mentioned this idea to John McQueen (engineer for Haringey who did the West Green Road diversion and all the work south east of Turnpike Lane station). He was aware of the scheme and receptive to it. Some roads are quite well suited, like Clarendon Road, N15. Def worth taking up.
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Permalink Reply by ant on
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This came up a few month ago, here, and i asked the council about it, but it didn't seem possible to wave the fee or have regular play days like they do in other boroughs. Also i heard in the wind that the GRA were looking at it and as Nilgun is the one to approve i gave up pursuing it for us in the ladder. Does seem like a nice thing to do though.
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Permalink Reply by Liz on
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Ant, I think the thing that the GRA is looking at is a DIY Streets project similar to the one recently completed in Turnpike Lane. This scheme is the one in Bristol and now Hackney (creeping closer) whereby parents close the street for a few hours. Even if the Gardens did have TPSOs there would be nothing to stop the rest of N4/N15/N8 applying for them too IF we could persuade the council to run such a scheme. Having now got the precedent for a neighbouring borough actually running it, perhaps it should be placed back on the table as something to try and push for. It would, of course, be dependent on a good number of parents (and the support of kid-friendly neighbours) to want to apply for the orders. I'm always amazed at how local streets are transformed at Halloween when lots of kids are walking around and being given a little licence and that's with cars still driving around. Imagine how nice if you could just let them run around without fear, while you sat on your garden walls and chatted about the day.
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Yep, I know the diff btw the DIY Streets and the TPSOs. Anyway I do think play days would be good so I'd be in support if you think we have a chance too. One thing with getting the permits they said was it would take a minimum of three months so when it came up before with summer holidays then autumn/winter coming it seemed better to wait till next spring to give a better chance of it not being raining, thats a big reason IMHO to try for more than one day, eg all Friday afternoons in a school term as play days on some street to hope that at least some are going to be fine.
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I wasn't suggesting you didn't know the difference
merely that the GRA are doing a DIY Streets style project and that is what Nilgun is involved with approving.However, I'm slightly confused. TPSOs don't yet exist in Haringey do they? So are you referring to the sort of road closures normally sought for street parties etc? Or do you mean that if TPSOs were brought in, you were told that they would take 3 months to get one?
To close roads in Haringey at present is a difficult and costly process, I know, but I thought the idea of these TPSOs was to cut through this red tape to enable parents to do this on a regular basis? Or have I got this wrong? If they were to make it as onerous as street party closure regulations, it would be impossible to sort out on a weekly basis.
Essentially, I'm suggesting in the above post not that we try to get street closures under the present Haringey regulations, but to push for the introduction of TPSOs first. Sorry if that wasn't clear from my original post.
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When i asked about it Haringey didn't yet have TPSOs, they said we'd have to use the street parties type of closures, which cost £80 per time took 3 months and could only be done once per year, or, they said the lead member of council (Nilgun) could get the fee waived and/or do things like apply to the Department of transport to have closure done more than once a year. They told me Bristol made applications under the Town and Police Clauses Act 1847 which Haringey doesn't use and they didn't think the Met Police are supportive of. And then i heard the GRA aspect. So a lot of mumbo jumbo i didn't really understand along with the Ladder/GRA/Nilgun stuff so i gave up.
It does sound like if we could get TPSOs introduced at Haringey it could be much easier.
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Googling i found a story about the Hackney play streets scheme with an email contact at the council, so i'll email them to ask how they did it.
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It also sounds like they gave you the brush off with a load of guff about Acts of 1847 and blaming the police. The Hackney Gazette article mentions Oldfield Road just a couple of miles from here so I don't think the Met could give two hoots about it personally.
As for having to wait for the lead member to waive a fee or apply to the DoT to close a road for a couple of hours on a Friday by a school, just seems a determined effort by LBH to make something appear very complicated, that is clearly pretty easy if you live a mile up the road in the London Borough of Hackney.
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I've talked to Hackney and they say they got similar feedback regarding the Town and Police Clauses Act 1847 from the Met Police but they then sought legal advice and were told it can be used within London and that the Met also have used it and have charged for this in the borough. So i went back to the Haringey people and they've now just told me - "Following your request and several other requests from borough residents, we are hopeful to implement a trial of play street orders in Haringey soon."
So that sounds promising, i'm trying to find out more about the trial and if we could be part of it.
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Permalink Reply by Alan Stanton on
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Ant, could I please ask you to post copies of any emails you got from Hackney or Haringey about this scheme. It's valuable that you've done this initial exploration, and it would be useful to have the record in the public domain. As you know, staff can change and what the last person advised isn't always recorded.
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Permalink Reply by Joanna Bornat on
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My daughter is involved in the Hackney scheme and had a pilot going in her street in E9 just before the holidays. Streets aren't closed to traffic, cars are just warned that they should proceed with care.
I think it would be a good idea to visit one of the Hackney schemes to see how they're going then it will all seem less abstract.
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Its a good point Alan, but i don't like to post an email publicly when the person sending it didn't know that was going to happen. There really isn't much more than what i've posted here already. It would be nice if there was some sort of email bridge to HoL so we could CC the discussion thread when sending an email to someone else.
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