Harringay, Haringey - So Good they Spelt it Twice!
Possible illegal conversion
News has reached me that there are plans to convert a house a few doors away into flats. Now, as I understand it, this is not allowed in the Ladder - am I right? I suspect they intend it as an HMO and have no intention of applying for permission. What should I do to nip this in the bud?
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Anette on
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Maddy, it's illegal to convert any house on the Ladder, full stop. It's a non-conversion area, and anyone who applies for planning persmission to convert will have it turned down. If they are trying to do it the legal way, then they'll get a no, and stop. If they're aiming to get an illegal conversion in then you have 4 years to get it reversed. The best think is to alert planning enforcement immediately, report them, and get the ball rolling. Unfortunately you will have to stay on it with phone calls and emails. Take note of names and dates, keep a diary, maybe enev do it as a blog on HoL so we can all follow this from the off, and see what's happening and how the Council reacts. It would be a really interesting excercise if you are willing to do it. We can help you with encouragement and advice along the way. Do it! The area can't take many more convesions, it's overcrowded as it is. This is why it's not legal to convert any more properties here.
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Permalink Reply by Alan Stanton on
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An Article 4 Direction is listed in the Council's current Forward Plan for a decision - one way or the other - on 10 July. But please bear in mind that should the cabinet agree the Article 4 Direction there is a twelve month notice period before it could be implemented.
People who'd like to see some action - and no more dither and delay - may want to email Cllr Claire Kober and the other "cabinet" members giving their view.
claire.kober@haringey.gov.uk ; john.bevan@haringey.gov.uk; nilgun.canver@haringey.gov.uk; joe.goldberg@haringey.gov.uk; alan.strickland@haringey.gov.uk; bernice.vanier@haringey.gov.uk;. ann.waters@haringey.gov.uk; richard.watson@haringey.gov.uk.
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Permalink Reply by Karen Alexander on
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Please feel free to email me on karen.alexander.haringeylibdems with the details of the property so I can take it up with the council as Anette suggests. A lot of what is said on this thread is true but we need to keep plugging away. Give me the details and I will carry on nagging them.
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I can't speak with any certainty about the rest of the borough though I know that Muswell Hill also suffers but there is a particular problem here in Harringay ward, we probably have the greatest percentage of split houses and HMOs. A working group of councillors have been working for some considerable time on this and Harringay was in fact choosen to pilot additional licensing. Article 4 Direction should be a help - lets hope the cabinet approve it
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Permalink Reply by Hugh on
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So, Alan, if they'd acted when I was urging them to about a year ago, our Article 4 protection would just about be in place now. http://www.harringayonline.com/forum/topics/urgent-action-required-...
Below is Cllr Canver's response to me at the time:
Dear Hugh,
As reported, the council is moving ahead with the additional licensing scheme for HMOs in the area in order to improve the quality. An Article 4 would mean that permitted development rights are withdrawn. This withdrawal would need to go through a lengthy consultation period and be fully justified for the council not to have to pay compensation for the withdrawal of nationally permitted devolopment rights. At this stage, our preferred option is to progress the additional licensing programme which is designed to increase improved and well managed smaller HMOs. The new additional licensing scheme will also generate its own resources which can be ploughed back into HMO management and improvement. Having said all these, I would like to inform you that I am planning to organise a borough wide seminar in the Autumn on HMOs to debate what other meaningful tools we have to introduce to control clustering of HMOs in the borough and to frame our strategic approach to these issues. Inevitably, at the seminar Article 4 Direction will be part of our debate. As you'll appreciate Article 4 will require much wider debate and strategic approach fully analysing advantages and disadvantages of such introduction. In the meantime, I will ask officers to e-mail you an update on the current additional licensing scheme that we are progressing in Harringay. Have a good Sunday.
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Yup !!
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Permalink Reply by Zena Brabazon on
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Hi Hugh
Stuart McNamara, who is a councillor in Bruce Grove, and I sit on the HMO working party. We have been pressing hard for the Article 4 all the time, and, as Alan says, a report is going to the Cabinet in July. I hope they will finally recommend that the Council starts the process and does go for a Article 4 direction. Please do write to Nilgun, Claire Kober and the cabinet (all listed on Haringey's website) to support this. I'm quite clear that it must happen if we are to have any chance of controlling HMOs in Tottenham. As the Ladder is a no-conversion zone I can't see how, under the present set-up, that conversions are allowed unless the C4 class overrules that. I'll write to Planning to get an answer for everyone.
Regarding enforcement, the Council established a Regulatory Committee last year. Planning enforcement reports to this committee and lists all the cases which have been or are being prosecuted. That's on the website too.
Finally, at the Area Forum and Committee meeting on July 5th (starts 6.30pm at the Cyprus Kitchen, Green Lanes), I have asked for a report on the discretionary licensing scheme since it is being piloted in Harringay ward. I took over as Chair from David Browne and want to have reports on topics which are of real concern to the neighbourhood so people can hear what progress is being made and what the issues are. The main topic for the forum part of the meeting is the new waste arrangements.
I hope people will come. To go on the mailing list please email: helen.chapman@haringey.gov.uk. Helen is the clerk to the committee and will be sending out/emailing the programme and agenda this coming week.
Thanks
Zena Brabazon
Councillor, St. Ann's Ward
Chair, St. Ann's and Harringay Area Forum and Committee
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Thanks Zena. More power to your elbow with ARticle 4.
With regards to "I'm quite clear that it must happen if we are to have any chance of controlling HMOs in Tottenham." - and Harringay and the rest of Haringey too, I hope.
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Zena's back this evening. But in the meantime, Hugh I'm curious about where you and other people define the boundaries of the area loosely known as Tottenham.
This seems an increasingly important question, as people bring their own definition to explain the plans they propose. Below: Saul Steinberg: View of the World from 9th Avenue.
Below: Property developers' Tottenham. From Grainger's Wards Corner website.
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never mind the Article 4, the bottom line here is that IT IS ILLEGAL TO CONVERT A LADDER HOUSE, and if that's what's happening on Maddy's case it needs to be stopped. Or has everyone just admitted defeat and are now planning on how to manage the illegal conversion before it's even finished? Why not put everything in to stopping it in it's tracks?
This discussion has really veered off topic a little..
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Permalink Reply by Arkady on
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Which law makes it illegal Anette? Surely Article 4 of the Town & Country Planning Act needs to be enacted before it is illegal?
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@arkady: there is a regulation in place for the Ladder where you cannot legally convert a ladder house. Check with the Council if you do not believe me. Some of us on here have been fighting these illegal conversions for years, and we do actually know what we're talking about...
I have now left the Ladder, the HMOs and the endless trouble they bring being one reason, but am happy to pipe up and help based on my own experience..
That HMO working group has been going for a few years, don't think anyone's seen any results so what are they actually doing? What's the point of having it? We all know this is a massive problem. Landlords take the pi** and convert, knowing full well the council as too bleeping inept to deal with it. What we need is a group dedicated to actually tackling the problem, not talking about it.
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