Harringay, Haringey - So Good they Spelt it Twice!
Dragon Vets Thread
Following further communications with Dragon Vets, we were requested to remove the complete thread since the complaint is subject to an investigation which could result in further action.
The full thread has been saved and will be available for reposting if it becomes appropriate.
We have taken this action since the legal advice was that we could very well be open a costly legal action. Having already spent several hours on this today, I can afford neither the time more the money to get engaged in a law suit.
Site member Dave Morris spent seven years fighting McDonalds. I guess I don't have his stamina!
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by 0rp5ggnv1hwus on
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Hi. I am Russell Hatton who owns Dragon Vets. I am a vet with 30 years experience.
We are terribly professional and have regular 'clinical audits' to monitor standards of practice, including me, the boss. We are so proud of our practice that we find anger and suspicion towards us terribly hurtful, even if it does come from a client's misunderstanding.
This is my grasp of the events at this time.Please note the internal investigation is not complete and I will only know the full facts when the dossier is presented to me by my clinical director.
A kitten was brought into the practice as an emergency having suffered an injury and was bleeding from the head. A worst case scenario estimate for investigation was unaffordable by the client, who had not insured the health of their pet, and they went to the RSPCA. There the investigation apparently stopped at finding the first injury and the cat was left overnight and was fine in the morning. The client is upset that investigation of the injuries was estimated for when, in the event, there was not terribly much wrong with the cat. Much of her anger is directed at Thomas, a Polish vet of some considerable experience and competence who is at the moment studying for his advanced certificate in small animalinternal medicine. I do not employ substandard Vets.
I can absolutely understand the client's reaction to events.
But let's consider a different scenario. Imagine the kitten HAD fractured it's skull or suffered lung haemorrhages or diaphragmatic hernia or any of the other injuries we have seen from similar falls, as well as splitting its palate and we had stopped investigation on finding the latter injury and put it into the ward for the night and it had died from a brain heamorrhage or some other cause. Then we would have been dammed for not offering full investigation.
Thomas is dammed if he does and dammed if he doesn't.
I have been practising enough to know that a vet should be alert at all times. Mostly things are predictable and fine, but one should on guard at all times for that bizarre chain of events that is completely unexpected.
Also, a vet must estimate for the worst case scenario so that the client can make an informed decision as did this client in this case. If the clinical investigation finds that things are not that bad, the investigation stops there and no further costs are incurred.
Thomas is a very good, thorough, caring and conscientious vet. He was doing his best for the kitten and the client. If he was not up to scratch I can assure you he would not be working for me.
This vitriolic character assassination is completely unfair and unwarranted.
We try so hard to provide the very very best care at affordable prices. We are open to communication from clients at any time and always take their opinions very seriously. If you have a complaint or worry, call me or my manager, Natasha, or email us. We will bend over backwards to help you. We are a lovely practice with lovely staff and lovely clients with lovely animals (who, it is true, sometimes fancy vet pie for dinner, but we are quick to forgive).
I would be very surprised to find out that the internal investigation uncovers any misdeed by Thomas, but you can rest assured it will be done properly and acted upon properly.
My name is Russell, and If you have particular comments to make about a member of my staff or the standard of practice I NEED to know about it. Please contact me.
PS. Have you seen the changes we have made to the practice premises recently? Re launch party open day coming soon.
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Don't worry Russel you will not be getting any complaints from me. I would be afraid to do so.
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That's ONE client I'm beginning to get trained. Now for the rest!
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No Russell I am not a client of yours. I never will be and I shall not be sending any business your way.
I find you a bit slimy to be honest. You shut down a thread on this site with a threat of legal action and then use the same service to give your side of the story. Isn't the internet great! You get to censor your critics and use the same service to plug your business.
Your P.R. style is a bit too slick for my liking!
Your client training programme sounds interesting though.
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Permalink Reply by cara howard on
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As I said yesterday on the original thread when Natasha Cherrett (clinical director) posted. I have a huge amount of respect for that.
I also said in my original post that I have used Dragon Vets for over 10 years and have recommended them to numerous people over the years, personally and on forums such as this.
I did not in my original post make 'vitriolic character assassination'. It was largely factual aside from saying that it was incredibly upsetting and I feel not handled correctly.
It would seem a little unfair that Dragon are able to have their say, about my case, yet no one else has the freedom of speech and I have not been contacted with the results of the investigation as yet.
The (factual) point I made at the time, and in my official complaint to Dragon (I have gone through the correct channels about this) is that I was told that the cat needed £750-£1000 worth of tests to even get an idea of what was wrong. I also said I appreciate the thorough nature of these tests. However, I questioned at the time with the vet whether that was a bit extreme and whether there was something in the interim (cheaper) that could be done or a phased approach. I was told it was this or put the kitten to sleep.
Had I gone with either of those options I could have spent a vast sum of money I didn't have and never known that the tests were not needed (remember, this cost was for tests only, treatment would have been on top) OR my kitten would have been put to sleep.
I took the kitten to the RSPCA for a second opinion or to see if they could do tests that wouldn't cost so much and the diagnosed a split palate immediately. I just find it odd that this was not seen by the original vet that examined the cat.
Regarding your comment "the client, who had not insured the health of their pet" the kitten is insured, but as I am sure you will be aware, even if I had taken out insurance the day I got the kitten (less than a week before her accident) it would not have been covered as there is a period of anything between 7 and 14 days (possibly longer on some policies) before you are able to make a claim against the policy.
As I have stated previously on here, I had always rated Dragon very highly, however, given the 2 possible outcomes of having taken Dragon's advice on this occasion, I am glad I didn't. Yes I accept the injury could have been much worse and tests may have been a good idea, but I cannot fail to question why an injury that was visible to the naked eye by one vet was not even diagnosed by another and why the options were so drastically far apart.
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Permalink Reply by KatyT on
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I believe that with petplan your insurance starts the instant you take it out in any case of injury - it's just illness it's 14 days.
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Permalink Reply by Anette on
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I think Russell has made a very good and valid point, I think it's great that the practice has come on to HoL to explain, and that they are investigating. I don't think anyone can ask for more. I also repeat what I have said on the previous discussion, I think Dragon Vets are really really good practice, I have been with them for over 10 years, and bar a few niggles with the vet in question here I have no complaints whatsoever, the service is always very good. I have heard of other practoces where they are blatantly out to make money out of the clients. Not so with Dragon. So think about that before you decide which vet to go to..
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Permalink Reply by John D on
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I think both sides have now had the opportunity to put their case on here and I suggest that HOL now suspend further discussion before this thread descends into another slanging match
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Permalink Reply by JulieB on
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I have more of a general query on what we can and can't say on here. If I'm talking to friends and they ask me for to recommend a service, or ask me about a shop I'd been to I would give them an honest opinion, which could be negative. I thought we could do the same thing on here. Sometimes I need to use a service or buy from a shop I don't know - so I'd like to be able to post on here and ask for people's opinions and experiences. Are we allowed to do this? Can people still post negative experiences? If not then it's pretty pointless asking. I read people's reviews on all sorts of sites and am often put of buying something if there are some negative reviews, maybe this is not seen in the same light legally.
Cara - I hope your kitten is on the mend now, it all sounds very scary and upsetting.
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Permalink Reply by Hugh on
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Yes, DO feel free to post negative experiences as well as positive ones. The vet thread that was deleted was the first time in five years we've been challenged. I don't think that should leave me or us as a community scared to share views. That would be a real pity.
I guess the post was exceptional in that the allegations it contained brought into question a particular individual's professional credibility. What we've all learned through this episode is that it may be as well to depersonalise comments when they may serve to damage an individual's reputation.
Otherwise, I'd say, just use common sense and given the potential of negative comments to do damage, do make sure that they are truly warranted. (By the way, this comment makes no inferences to any posters in the Dragon thread).
I dare say that Natasha and Russell wouldn't seek to muzzle HoL or sites like it, but they might ask for a little circumspection from time to time.
Make sense?
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Thanks Hugh, yes that does make sense.
Good point John about the things here being published rather than discussing with friends.
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I suppose you can say anything you like on here provided that you are prepared to go to court and prove that it is true and that, even if true, your intent in posting was not malicious. Remember, however that posting on a public forum is a form of publication to an audience of thousands and is not the same as talking to friends.
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