Harringay, Haringey - So Good they Spelt it Twice!
Betting shop clusters are linked to crime. Would you believe it!!!
Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Clive Carter on
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The council's trading company's solicitor claimed that gambling wasn't connected to crime.
The council, in the form of APTL, applied to itself for a gambling premises licence at Alexandra Palace. This was a Hearing of the Licensing Committee in April 2008, chaired (and dominated) by former Councillor. H. Lister, long a public advocate of a Casino at Alexandra Palace. Despite formal objectors present who actually outnumbered the Full Licensing Committee, the council committee had no hesitation in awarding itself (APTL) a gambling premises licence.
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Permalink Reply by Alan Stanton on
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The "news" reported by that pushing-the-envelope and up-to-the-minute journal the Haringey Independent is that a Scrutiny Review was done early this year and a report published in April. It was a useful report and worth reading carefully. The Independent must be congratulated for giving it extra publicity and adding new material including a quotation obtained from Cllr Nilgun Canver who is in Turkey. (Possibly the joy of Skype?)
The question, TW, is what exactly we are asked to believe or disbelieve. That betting shops cause crime as such? That's not the evidence in the Review. Except that some angry customers damage the machines. What's clearer from the Review is that the clustering of betting shops is seen as attracting customers who may congregate outside, and are sometimes disorderly. And these groups are often seen as intimidating by other people.
(Tottenham Hale ward councillor)
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Alan do you think its possible that these places could conceivably used to launder money, in ways that are more convenient that other retailers? The patrons of these establishments are not conspicously wealthy and overall, perforce, must be net losers. Do you ever wonder where their (net) stake money might come from (aside from "the housekeeping")?
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Ah, of course! The review conspicuously failed to mention the words "Palace" and "Alexandra". How could I have missed something so obvious?
The only thing I know about money laundering, Clive, is the occasional very clean fiver which makes it through the washing machine in my shirt pocket. Though I'm told by people in the know that it's more sophisticated than accumulator betting in Green Lanes. Invoices for non-existent Chinese goods were mentioned.
I wonder if you're the first person on HoL who's used the word "perforce". Nice touch.
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I naturally agree with the reported comments by Nigun Canver about the Gambling Act.
The gambling precedent at our Charity – and the licensing committee decision – is an example of what is known as "a conflict of interest" which are not always recognized by the local authority and least of all at Ally Pally they control. IMO, its a pity the council is seen to be both promoting and profiting from gambling.
Re betting shop crime: it's not just the visible things is it? ie. the disorderliness, the criminal damage to the FOBTs or the occasional armed robbery?
You don't have to be thinking too far out of the box to assert that these places could be used for money laundering. The scrap metal trade probably imposes more controls on their customers (or may soon have to).
These places prey on the poorer and I for one wonder where some of the stake money's coming from.
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Permalink Reply by Protheroe O'Shea on
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Fixed Odds Betting Terminals?
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FOBT = Fixed Odds Betting Terminal
These are limited to four per premises. They are highly profitable for the owners. At the time of the pernicious Gambling Act, the then Home Secretary was persuaded to impose this one restriction on the "market" which was otherwise explicitly unfettered.
Paradoxically, this well-intentioned limit is probably part of the reason for the proliferation in betting shop premises. One more premises equals four more FOBTs.
I made a submission to the current enquiry by the DCMS into gambling and I think I suggested reducing this limit, which should change the economics of more outlets.
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Permalink Reply by John McMullan on
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John, Wikipedia is your friend. Here is the article on Fixed Odds Betting Terminals.
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Permalink Reply by pamish on
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As FOBTs guarantee to pay back some 80% (?), if you keep feeding them they will pay out. So you can drop in all your earnings from saying pimping or crack selling, and have back 80% in nice clean tokens.
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I think our local councillors need to get up to speed on money laundering; after all the term is recognized in legislation.
I heard the FOBT pay out ratio was about 98% Pam. On the face of it, it sounds good. But its highly addictive. 98% x 98% ... 20 times, reduces your money to two thirds of your original stake. And they keep coming back!
Punters spend long periods in front of this machine-gambling because they don't have the shock of losing a lot suddenly. Like the sands in an hour glass, their pay packet is lightened over a period. Sometimes when they realise what chumps they've been, they attack the machines themselves.
Its cynical and insidious and extremely profitable for the owners. If they weren't limited to four FOBTs per premises, the whole betting shop might be full of them.
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Permalink Reply by Ruth on
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I think you should be careful about putting in writing anything about supposed/hypothetical links of any particular shops or places with money laundering. Or pimping or selling crack...You may be bordering on making libellous statements Clive! I am not sticking up for betting shops and the FOBTs but let's not give them ammunition for criticising us.
I think a lot of the money spent in betting shops is the housekeeping and as some men in there don't work, that means benefits. I would wonder about the sort of crime that occurs post- betting shop binges when a man, let's say, has lost the money for food and for the kids and decides to take it out on the wife. There are links between those sorts of behaviour- drinking, gambling and domestic violence, always have been.
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