Harringay, Haringey - So Good they Spelt it Twice!
I don't think the Council is listening at all
I'm becoming increasingly disillusioned with the readiness of our council to include residents in local or borough wide policy priorities and plans.
Two local issues have led me here. The first is the Council's handling of the Green Lanes Corridor traffic spending and their response to a petition from the residents of Harringay about draft plans. I hope to deal with that soon on a separate post.
The second issue is the long drawn out issue of the banner on Harringay Bridge. There's been much talk - mainly dissatisfaction - on the site about Harringay Bridge. So when an email arrived last year from the Council announcing that the banners would be changed and seeking resident opinion, it seemed like residents might finally get a say.
Here's what the email said
The Green Lanes Strategy Group (GLSG) will soon be considering updating the current banners on the Green Lanes Bridge in Harringay. It was previously agreed by the GLSG that advertising spaces would be made available using the two small banners on both sides of the bridge to generate an annual income in order to be able to provide regular maintenance of the surrounding area of the bridge and to ensure that the banners are updated and kept free of graffiti. It was also agreed that local businesses would be given priority to use the advertising spaces available; the only take up at that time was from McDonalds. The contract with McDonalds is now coming to an end in September 2010. There are now sufficient funds generated through the advertisement to upgrade the banners and replace the small ones to their original display identifying the two wards. However in doing this, GLSG is mindful that no further advertising space will be made available and therefore, no further income will be generated to continue the future up keep of the surrounding area of the bridge and that of the banners.
In view of this, and before any final decisions are taken by the Green Lanes Strategy Group, community representatives on the GLSG are asked to consult with their respective community groups for their views regarding:
1. the possibility of continuing to use the bridge banners for advertising / sponsorship purposes from local businesses.
OR
2. to revert back to the original banners without any advertisements
The GLSG is due to meet in September and I look forward to receiving your comments by no later than the week beginning 30 August.
The banner design was put out to consultation. Please can you provide me with a full copy of the consultation results.
Believing the Council would want local opinion taken into account, Harringay Online ran a survey which looked at a broader set of issues on what locals would want on a new banner. 218 people responded. The survey results in full are attached to this post. Perhaps the most notable finding on the survey was on the matter of what will be written on the banner:
The only replies I received on this submission were:
1. From Nilgun Canver - Thanks Hugh. This is helpful. We’ve got time until Sept. Let’s see what the others will say. Pls. forward to Dasos for me.
2. From Dasos - Thanks again for sending me the outcome of your on line survey – what would also be helpful if you can send me the figures on the number of people in each category that contributed
3. On a side copy from the Gardens Residents Association - So far we have had 9 replies to the GRA consultation concerning the bridge do we want advertising or not on the banners. I will be sending the results to Dasos soon- so if you have not yet voted - please do let me know asap.
I am also attaching below the document I sent in reply to Dasos. message (in 2 above). In addition to providing the breakdown requested, it also summarises other responses received to the 'consultation'.
You can imagine therefore how surprised I was when my next communication on this was the following email from the Council last Monday:
The Chair (of The Green Lanes Strategy Group) has also asked me to attach for your information, the final design for the Green Lanes Centre Bridge Banners (below). The colours of the banners are in the "Haringey Green" although this is not clear from the attached. The banners will be installed as soon as possible.
So on the same day I wrote again to the council, pretty much saying what I've said above; this time to Claire Kober (Leader) cc Nilgun Canver (Chair of Green Lanes Strategy Group & 'cabinet' member responsible). I concluded by saying:
Whilst I can understand that the Council might not want to base decisions on the results of a survey run by Harringay Online, I would expect at least that our survey would act as a flag to local opinion and the Council would run its own consultation. 90% of our survey respondents chose an option other than the one that has apparently been chosen now by the Council. However, as it stands now, no local opinion was sought by the Council on the issue of what legend will be used, despite the very clear signal our work showed about the importance of the issue.
We're trying very hard to work with the Council and support giving local people more say on their neighbourhood. The Council's response to this representation of local opinion leave me quite frankly gobsmacked. Surely this isn't worthy of Haringey.
(Yes. okay by I was miffed).
Two days later the following email arrived:
Dear All
Further to the email below I would like to clarify the last paragraph.
The final design of the 'Green Lanes Centre Bridge Banners' will be discussed and agreed at this meeting (under item 4 on the agenda).
We apologise for any confusion this may have caused.
Kind regards,
Judith Comrie
By way of an interesting footnote. someone forwarded me the following message left by the former Chair of the Gardens' Residents Group on their Yahoo Group (You have to be a Gardens' residents to join):
I know this has already been discussed, but I think the presence of a banner
on the bridge really degrades the area.
So this issue is clearly one that concerns all parts of Harringay, including informally represented as well as formally represented residents.
I guess I must take the Council at their word. Whilst the fact that they've only prepared and circulated one option leaves me more than a little sceptical, and whilst the design suggests that this is a sign for the traders and Green Lanes rather than the whole of Harringay, it may be that after all the Council is willing to find a way of at least making a decent attempt at reflecting residents' views in what is after all the gateway to our neighbourhood.
The meeting that will decide is on Thursday 17 March 2011 at 7.30 pm at Woodlands Park Nursery, Woodlands Road, London N15.
Tags for Forum Posts: consultation, glsg, harringay banner, harringay bridge
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Replies to This Discussion
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Permalink Reply by Hugh on
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Well, yes. I agree.
I was invited to be involved as an interviewee last year for the process of the borough overhauling its local democracy to make it more representative. And, as a result, I know that there are plans afoot. All well and good, but when we observe behaviour of this sort, it underlines the strong possibility that the change required is likley to be more cultural than structural. But then wadda I know.
Still no response to my email by the way, just that Regan/Bush style 'sorry we misspoke' email from the officer.
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Permalink Reply by Old-Age-Emporium(OAE) on
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I suppose the illogicality of welcoming travellers to the next furlong of a road they've already travelled for several miles would be lost on an unrepresentative bunch calling themselves the Green Lanes Strategy Group.
Why not suggest: "Welcome to Asia Minor" instead? Mehmet & Nilgun the Magnificent Duo might appreciate the historical nod.
Alternatively, like The Traders & their Food Festival, we in Harringay On Line could chip in our own bridge banner bribe/backhander/baksheesh to get a proper result. Surely we're at least as representative as a bunch of barbers, dodgy jewellers, charcoal burners and betting joints?
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Permalink Reply by Anette on
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OAE, love your post. Agree 100%.
And on another note: If all the other minorities that reside in this area get their language on the banner then I think it's borderline racist to leave mine out! If they're having a few they should add all, or just keep it in one language, English. Which is the official language. Nit picking? Don't think so.
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Permalink Reply by ElleCarumba on
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interesting point about the languages.Witamy I know is Polish for welcome. I assume the others are Greek, Turkish and Kurdish?
Are there any stats on what proportion of residents speak which language? (note, residents not traders)
There is a Brazilian restaurant just by the bridge plus the Bulgarian cafe, the Hungarian bakery, the Neapolitian restaurant. .. is there any statistical basis for the languages they have selected? Seems to be a lot of Spanish speakers around too (or maybe I am just swayed by my noisy Spanish near neighbours?) How about gaelic for our Irish locals? I am not sure if the census asks about languages spoken but the results will be very interesting.
PS Will there be a new sign marking where Green Lanes is no longer N4?
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Permalink Reply by Paul Harvey on
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Is a valid question...and would be interesting to know on what basis these were selected.
Whilst there probably are some figures or stats somewhere that can point to the demographic make-up of the area.. It would be interesting to compare these to the make-up of those posting and contributing to this site. I'd be interested to see if your survey Hugh was responded to by a representative group of residents, one that reflects the multi-cultural make-up of Harringay.
Any thoughts on that? is Harringay online representative of the views of people living in the area?
Probably a difficult one to answer, but it might be the way those at the Council view the site..??
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I think we can safely say that the survey respondents weren't a representative sample of the population, but they are about 218 more voices more than the council has so far taken into account.
This very need to ensure fair play was just why I said above "Whilst I can understand that the Council might not want to base decisions on the results of a survey run by Harringay Online", then I concluded "I would expect at least that our survey would act as a flag to local opinion and the Council would run its own consultation".
Council consultations seem to be doing well if they hit a 2% response rate. For Harringay (neighbourhood not ward), that's a tad over 300 people. I imagine their responses aren't representative either. It's a real conundrum for councils to get engagement from local people. That's what pisses me off. This survey, evidencing residents' views, is being offered to them on a plate and they ignore it because they want a different result. (Nilgun Canver is on record as saying that Harringay as a neighbourhood doesn't exist).
You'll note, however, that representative or not, our survey returned a response almost as big as a council-run consultation - on which they are happy to base their decisions.
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Agree that significant numbers should be enough to get those at the council to sit up and take notice of what's being said by residents... However not all will see it that way. What I'm hinting at is that possibly the 'powers that be' might be more likely to take notice if they felt confident that the results of any survey were representative of all those that their decisions affect rather than an - albeit significant number - of those of a similar ilk who share the same view.
Maybe when it comes to canvassing opinion on key issues that we're keen to get the council to take notice of our views on, we should have a think about additional ways to increase the range of respondents to H-Gay on lines surveys. Maybe put up a few flyers around the place, ini local shops or cafes maybe... just a thought. Might make the council sit up and take notice a little more?
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Permalink Reply by Alison P on
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Yes, they are Polish, Greek, Turkish and Kurdish. I don 't know what the main Harringay languages are but imagine these are the top four alternatives to English.
Personally the welcome greeting makes me splutter a bit, particularly the clinical postcode. Seems ludicrous given that only a few blocks later we are in N8. What do people not like about the word Harringay? It seems by far the most accurate and obvious way round the problem.
I'm not surprised you are hacked off Hugh. It is a small thing compared with others, sure, but if residents' voices don't even count when thinking about how their 'community' (the banner's word, not mine) is described then what hope for the bigger things?
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Permalink Reply by John D on
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Something of a formality surely ? Asking their own Planning Committee for permission is unlikely to result in a refusal.
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Permalink Reply by Mr Growbag on
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Perhaps they've been watching too much of a certain web-based EastEnders spin off or dusting off their copies of "Stay another day"...
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Permalink Reply by KP on
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Agreed. It seems the only time the council appears to take note of residents views is when an election is looming. I am also sick of the way the traders bulldoze their way around here. They are obviously happy to have the area look cheap and tacky but many of the residents are not. There must be a way we can fight this!
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Permalink Reply by John McMullan on
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Of all the people involved in this "Green Lanes Enfourey", I am the most shocked at Nilgun Canver's scant regard for the financially neutral wishes of local voters when you think about her ambitions for higher political office.
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